RvW Overturned - Abortions Now Illegal

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Vēritās
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Re: RvW Overturned - Abortions Now Illegal

Post by Vēritās »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 3:18 am
Vēritās wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 2:51 am
To the point about Hispanics moving to the right, I think most of that is based on the huge gains in South Florida in the past election. Unlike the rest of the country, the Latino population in Florida is overwhelmingly Puerto Rican or Cuban. And as a former resident of five years in Orlando, one thing I learned from observation is that Mexicans were absolutely hated by both groups.

orlando.jpg

For years the Right has been courting the Cuban population of South Florida. I remembered when Rush Limbaugh became a darling of the Cuban community when he said Cubans Work Hard, Unlike Mexicans. Of course, all Limbaugh really cared about was their political leanings.

Before getting married I dated a Puerto Rican who would get infuriated like you wouldn't believe, if anyone asked her if she was from Mexico. Mexicans were considered almost like second class people to these folks. So it really isn't surprising to me that an overtly anti-Mexican President like Trump could make huge gains in a state like Florida. Is it something Democrats could address better? Not sure.

Latinos can be racist too, my community proves that
You can think that, but I don’t think it’s factual. The gains were along the Mexican border. https://www.politico.com/amp/news/magaz ... nos-437027
Well i lived that life in Florida. The largest gains were primarily in FLorida but in Texas:

"Trump’s success in peeling off Latino votes in South Texas had everything to do with not talking to them as Latinos. His campaign spoke to them as Tejanos, who may be traditionally Democratic but have a set of specific concerns—among them, the oil and gas industry, gun rights and even abortion—amenable to the Republican Party’s positions, and it resonated."

So they're basically Conservatives. What can Democrats do about that? Nothing, because Dems are never going to be pro-life, pro-gun or pro-fossil fuels.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ ... nos-437027
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Res Ipsa
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Re: RvW Overturned - Abortions Now Illegal

Post by Res Ipsa »

Vēritās wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 3:22 am
Res Ipsa wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 3:18 am


You can think that, but I don’t think it’s factual. The gains were along the Mexican border. https://www.politico.com/amp/news/magaz ... nos-437027
Well i lived that life in Florida. The largest gains were primarily in FLorida but in Texas:

"Trump’s success in peeling off Latino votes in South Texas had everything to do with not talking to them as Latinos. His campaign spoke to them as Tejanos, who may be traditionally Democratic but have a set of specific concerns—among them, the oil and gas industry, gun rights and even abortion—amenable to the Republican Party’s positions, and it resonated."

So they're basically Conservatives. What can Democrats do about that? Nothing, because Dems are never going to be pro-life, pro-gun or pro-fossil fuels.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ ... nos-437027
Surprise! That’s exactly the point. You were just crowing about the nation becoming more racially diverse. Guess what — there is no necessary connection between brown skin and political views. Just like in Brazil.

You don’t know how people who aren’t voters yet are going to vote. And people can and do change political ideologies and parties. The Democrats won national elections by getting a minority of the white vote, an overwhelming majority of the black vote and a sizable chunk of the Hispanic vote. But, given the fact that there’s no necessary correlation between skin color and political ideology, maintaining that magnitude of margin among black and Hispanic vote isn’t something you can take to the bank. Writing off the Hispanic votes that voted for Trump as “conservatives” is a losing strategy for the Dems — especially when we’re talking about Texas, where Ds need every vote if they want to start winning the state in Presidential elections.

You can dismiss the arrogance within the left as a meme and keep dehumanizing conservatives, but all you’re doing is reinforcing what Rush and his successors have been telling folks like Ajax for decades that the left is like. Dismissing conservatives as being incapable of changing their minds is a self fulfilling prophecy. People can’t change if we don’t give them the space to change.
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Re: RvW Overturned - Abortions Now Illegal

Post by Manetho »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 4:08 am
Dismissing conservatives as being incapable of changing their minds is a self fulfilling prophecy. People can’t change if we don’t give them the space to change.
And how the hell can anyone do that?
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Res Ipsa
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Re: RvW Overturned - Abortions Now Illegal

Post by Res Ipsa »

Manetho wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 5:38 am
Res Ipsa wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 4:08 am
Dismissing conservatives as being incapable of changing their minds is a self fulfilling prophecy. People can’t change if we don’t give them the space to change.
And how the hell can anyone do that?
What, give someone space to change?
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Re: RvW Overturned - Abortions Now Illegal

Post by Manetho »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 5:41 am
What, give someone space to change?
Give conservatives the space to change. You said:
Res Ipsa wrote:Meanwhile, here in the West, we’ve dicked around about water, even though we’ve known for decades that the Colorado River was over allocated and that climate change was going to make that situation even worse, so lots of folks are dangerously close to having no electricity and/or water when they turn the tap on. People are already stressed to the point of near insanity, and it only gets worse from here.

Either we put some real meaning into the notion of the common good or we lose civilization as we’ve known it.
I agree with that, but what evidence is there that conservative voters could ever be brought on board with adapting to climate change? What appeal can anyone make to them?
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bill4long
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Re: RvW Overturned - Abortions Now Illegal

Post by bill4long »

Some Schmo wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:12 pm
As if we needed additional proof that the GOP and their voters are damned assholes, Roe v Wade has now been overturned.

I'm not sure what else to say, except it's become clear GOP voters are dickwad authoritarians now. It's unfathomable to me how so many people can be so incredibly damned stupid and selfish. It's unreal. I have zero regard for humanity at this point. People are damned retarded.

If you're an asshole, you have full representation by the GOP. Congrats.
Well, um, no. It's up to individual states. It's actually closer to local democracy now. A win for democracy.

Sidebar: I just ate some turtle eggs, and they were delicious.

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Res Ipsa
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Re: RvW Overturned - Abortions Now Illegal

Post by Res Ipsa »

Take a page from Katherine Hayhoe’s book. Appealing to the Biblical concept of stewardship has helped her persuade conservatives Christians on the issue of climate change.

There’s no magic trick to persuading people that guarantees a high rate of success. It’s work. It requires paying attention to and learning what is most important to them, and then constructing arguments within their frame of reference.

You also have to recognize and try to avoid fundamental attribution error. In fact, concluding that conservatives are unpredictable is a good example of the error. You probably perceive yourself as a rational person who will change his mind if given good reasons to do so. So does a conservative person. But each perceives the other as an ideologue who is not persuadable under any circumstances.

One thing that is 100% certain — you have a zero percent chance of persuading anyone if you start from the position that they are not persuadable. Same if you treat or talk about them as bad people. Persuasion has to be grounded in compassion — the recognition that the other is a human being just like you are. Starting from there helps you listen and learn what is most important to them. And that’s what you use to frame your argument.

But it’s easier to write people off based on labels, so that’s what is much more common.
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Re: RvW Overturned - Abortions Now Illegal

Post by doubtingthomas »

Single moms in 2030

Mom: You are grounded!

Daughter: I hate you mom! I wish I had never been born.

Mom: You can blame the government, honey!
"I have the type of (REAL) job where I can choose how to spend my time," says Marcus. :roll:
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Re: RvW Overturned - Abortions Now Illegal

Post by Chap »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 6:33 am
Appealing to the Biblical concept of stewardship has helped her persuade conservatives Christians on the issue of climate change.
Yup - early on in Genesis we have this statement of the whole purpose of creating people in the first place:

Genesis 2:
15 The Lord God took the man and placed him in the Garden of Eden in order to have him work it and guard it.
In this version of the creation story, it is fairly clear that God made the garden for himself - he walks in it "in the cool of the day", and the man is just there to look after it. Clearly, that is not a job we are doing very well at the moment ...
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Mayan Elephant:
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Re: RvW Overturned - Abortions Now Illegal

Post by canpakes »

Manetho wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 5:48 am
… what evidence is there that conservative voters could ever be brought on board with adapting to climate change? What appeal can anyone make to them?

Build an incredibly lifelike Robot Trump that cannot be discerned from the real one, and program it to say certain things in public, such as, “Climate change is a real thing” ..?
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