RvW Overturned - Abortions Now Illegal

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Binger
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Re: RvW Overturned - Abortions Now Illegal

Post by Binger »

Gadianton wrote:
Mon Aug 01, 2022 4:04 am
The bottom line for me, h, is that I'm just naturally not much of a participator and kind of an outsider. If I weren't married and laden with responsibilities, and with a career firmly remote at this point, I'd live out in the middle of nowhere in like, one of these small ranches and fix up the place and stay away from people most of the time.

I've never paid much attention to politics, figuring that anything I'm dissatisfied in life about can be fixed far more directly by other means rather than by voting. I've never liked the personality types in politics because the job seems to require a certain level of charlatanism to succeed. Also, I've never really felt like there would be much difference between presidential candidates. I abhor listening to speeches. I can't stand all the "ra ra ra" Amway convention BS in politics. I don't want to go to an event and feel all the energy behind a candidates platform and get excited about it. I don't like religion, and politics is very similar to religion.

My biggest exposure to politics was probably EA, since we'd been friends since Z and he was really into politics, and I enjoyed getting his take on things. Since then I've enjoyed you others who have cropped up since EA chickened out and left. EA convinced me that Hilary would be better than Trump. But not enough to actually vote. My little exposure to political science in school did convince me of the importance of gridlock, and if anything, I'd get concerned about a president with too much ability to get things done. I figured Hilary with all her connections and experience would get a crapload done, and getting things done means changing the nature of the game you have to play as a citizen. I figured Trump was too much of an idiot to accomplish anything, and so maybe he'd be better. Boy, was I wrong. Trump "accomplished" way more than I could ever imagine, and most of it bad.

Binger is wrong about one thing. While my counterfactual votes up to 2020 wouldn't have counted for much, in 2020, I was living in a swing state, and I'm proud to say that I voted, and my vote kept Ajax's president out of office :lol: . This time, there is no question that the president makes a difference. I really hope we can go back to my vote not being needed. You guys can hammer out the little stuff, I just want the basics in place, which are now at risk, thanks to right-wing fanaticism. Unfortunately, I fear I will need to vote in future elections.

I don't know all the voting distinctions, I voted with a ballot that came to me in the mail, but I didn't mail it, I dropped it off at the voting tent. The thought did occur to me that a right-wing mailperson would have no problem dumping my ballot so I dropped it off to be sure. So did all the right-wingers on my walk, none of them voted in person.

I have no reason to believe that voting by mail isn't safe enough when considering the large number of voters. I read all the articles that subs would post about voting fraud and a lot of it comes down to (the stuff with any merit at all) people not understanding things like how information systems work, bugs in code, and so on, that aren't critical. A city's IT budget isn't the same as Google's.

I've said before that I don't like the fact that Democrats have to rely on mail-in voting because so many poor people don't have bank accounts or proper ID, and therefore can't vote otherwise. How about a concerted effort to help poor people get proper ID, and so on, which will help them in far more direct ways than being able to vote? That also helps with jobs and other benefits. But, things can always be worse, so if the only way to keep unhinged right-wingers out of office is to have poor people mail in their ballots, then so be it.
Nice post. I like the strategy of living on a ranch and fixing it up. I have done that. I will do it again. We moved closer to the city during the pandemic to try and cut the travel time down. I am having some regrets. We are on our way back to the countryside soon. Many people disagree with me on the differences between McConnell, Biden, Schumer and Trump. It is true that Trump was an outlier. He did not come from the Senate, and he behaves accordingly. Obviously - Biden, Harris, Clinton, Kane, Obama, Biden, Romney, Ryan, McCain, Kerry, Edwards, Gore and Dole had a lot more in common than Trump, LOL. You make a good point.

Sound's like you are comfortable filling out that ballot and handing it off. Right on. Keep it up. My Mom and Dad don't have a problem with it either. No worries. Now, if we can just make voting day a national holiday, I can pay my employees not to work that day and not vote.
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Re: RvW Overturned - Abortions Now Illegal

Post by Gunnar »

Binger wrote:
Mon Aug 01, 2022 1:03 pm
Sound's like you are comfortable filling out that ballot and handing it off. Right on. Keep it up. My Mom and Dad don't have a problem with it either. No worries. Now, if we can just make voting day a national holiday, I can pay my employees not to work that day and not vote.
That's the way I and my family do it too. We receive the official ballots in the mail and fill them out, but we never sent them back through the mail. We always either hand carry the completed ballots to the county registrar's office or to the nearest designated polling place on election day (if we haven't already turned them in before that day). Usually, we turn them in before the actual election day rather than wait until election day to turn them in. We don't want to take even the slightest risk that the completed ballots might get lost in the mail somehow. Besides that, when we do hand them in personally, the personnel at the registrar's office or the polling place always do a final check to make sure the ballot envelope is properly sealed and signed.
No precept or claim is more suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
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Binger
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Re: RvW Overturned - Abortions Now Illegal

Post by Binger »

Gunnar wrote:
Mon Aug 01, 2022 6:07 pm
Binger wrote:
Mon Aug 01, 2022 1:03 pm
Sound's like you are comfortable filling out that ballot and handing it off. Right on. Keep it up. My Mom and Dad don't have a problem with it either. No worries. Now, if we can just make voting day a national holiday, I can pay my employees not to work that day and not vote.
That's the way I and my family do it too. We receive the official ballots in the mail and fill them out, but we never sent them back through the mail. We always either hand carry the completed ballots to the county registrar's office or to the nearest designated polling place on election day (if we haven't already turned them in before that day). Usually, we turn them in before the actual election day rather than wait until election day to turn them in. We don't want to take even the slightest risk that the completed ballots might get lost in the mail somehow. Besides that, when we do hand them in personally, the personnel at the registrar's office or the polling place always do a final check to make sure the ballot envelope is properly sealed and signed.
Gunnar, I would never dissuade anyone from doing what you are doing. Never. I haven't. I wouldn't. If those adaptations to the process provide you some faith that you are participating fairly, I am cool with that. Well done and well presented or described here.

I have issues with the process that presents the issues that you are addressing and remedying for you. And for that reason, I am out. Keep doing what you are doing if you are comfortable with that.
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: RvW Overturned - Abortions Now Illegal

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Binger wrote: I have issues with the process that presents the issues that you are addressing and remedying for you. And for that reason, I am out. Keep doing what you are doing if you are comfortable with that.
You mentioned before you’re not comfortable with the chain of custody with regard to mail-in ballots. What is it about the chain of custody vis a vis traditional voting that inspires confidence in you?

- Doc
1. Speech is aggression.
2. Every utterance has a winner or a loser.
3. Curiosity is feigned.
4. Lying is performative.
5. Stupidity is power.
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Binger
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Re: RvW Overturned - Abortions Now Illegal

Post by Binger »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:04 pm
Binger wrote: I have issues with the process that presents the issues that you are addressing and remedying for you. And for that reason, I am out. Keep doing what you are doing if you are comfortable with that.
You mentioned before you’re not comfortable with the chain of custody with regard to mail-in ballots. What is it about the chain of custody vis a vis traditional voting that inspires confidence in you?

- Doc
The ballots are received one at a time when voting is done by person. They are not mingled with other parcels and mail in the same way that USPS receives mail. The first handoff is my biggest issue. Sorting and transfers are another issue. I know ballots appear anonymous, but with the USPS stamping where a ballot is received there is statistical information that can be inferred or gathered. Some states process the ballots early so they can reach out to voters to make corrections which indicates there is another custody concern.

Meh. Hell with it, really. Y'all have fun with vote by mail.
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canpakes
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Re: RvW Overturned - Abortions Now Illegal

Post by canpakes »

Binger wrote:
Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:21 pm
I know ballots appear anonymous, but with the USPS stamping where a ballot is received there is statistical information that can be inferred or gathered.

Sounds great, if one is worried about ‘stolen ballots’. We have the means to confirm basic credibility.

Sounds great is one is worried about anonymity, even, given that voting in person lets a ballot worker see who you are (OMG!) before they tear open your envelope and alter your choice after you leave, letting them track you down easier and ID you for the re-education camps. It’s harder to do that with ballots by mail. ; )
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: RvW Overturned - Abortions Now Illegal

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Binger wrote:
Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:21 pm
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:04 pm


You mentioned before you’re not comfortable with the chain of custody with regard to mail-in ballots. What is it about the chain of custody vis a vis traditional voting that inspires confidence in you?

- Doc
The ballots are received one at a time when voting is done by person. They are not mingled with other parcels and mail in the same way that USPS receives mail. The first handoff is my biggest issue. Sorting and transfers are another issue. I know ballots appear anonymous, but with the USPS stamping where a ballot is received there is statistical information that can be inferred or gathered. Some states process the ballots early so they can reach out to voters to make corrections which indicates there is another custody concern.

Meh. Hell with it, really. Y'all have fun with vote by mail.
Right, but I’m talking about the chain of custody. Walk me through the chain of custody at a voting station vice mailing your ballot.

- Doc
1. Speech is aggression.
2. Every utterance has a winner or a loser.
3. Curiosity is feigned.
4. Lying is performative.
5. Stupidity is power.
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Gadianton
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Re: RvW Overturned - Abortions Now Illegal

Post by Gadianton »

I shrug my shoulders at any concerns from the "chain of custody" site aside from the USPS losing your ballot. The one concern I found ironic was about coercion. Knowing how heated things were getting in my swing state at the time, and knowing that republicans marshal their forces on voting night, and knowing Trump was calling for the Proud Boys to stand by and watch the polls, essentially ordering his supporters to intimidate non-Trump voters, knowing the well-documented election official intimidation going on by unhinged right-wingers; any kind of systematic voter intimidation is obviously far more likely voting in person than by mail. That was actually a factor I took into consideration. I even timed my ballot drop-off to when there was a short line at the tent. It was a minor concern, it wouldn't have stopped me from voting in person if that were the only option, but why not limit risks when it's possible?

If someone says something to me, I'm going to respond, and that might get me into trouble with the bad people out there. Do I think anyone would risk doing anything overt at the tent? No. But, I could see somebody noting the car I get into to drive, getting a plate number, or just making note of me since I do so much walking in the area.
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