Neighbors

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Jersey Girl
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Neighbors

Post by Jersey Girl »

So I was driving home from an appointment and the reward to myself that followed today--Hobby Lobby. ;-) I always reward myself after something that I think could be potentially stressful for me. Turned out it wasn't at all stressful but I still rewarded myself with a few little purchases.

As I was driving through town I saw the townhouse apartments that I have always thought were so pretty, they have white railed porches and the ones on the corners have a private porch. That's the kind I would pick to live in. I notice that the townhouse that were adjacent shared the porch and I thought how awkward that might feel to residents. There is never anyone sitting there. Down the road further there are new apartments that I think might be income based. There's a lot of those around here now. There was a man and woman on their porch talking to someone standing in the yard and the woman put me in mind of Mama June. I had a moment with myself about how I was judging her because she seemed so plain. I lived a plain life when I was younger and when I say plain I mean really low income.

I immediately rewinded to the pretty shared porches and wondered why I thought that would be awkward. Putting aside the fact that I'm a introvert on steroids, it seems to me that folks don't mingle with their neighbors these days and Mama June and her man were living a friendly life in their low income houses and...so did I when I lived a plain life.

Where I grew up it was a street in a beach town. On one side was houses and the other side of the street was all boats. There's no one in that town who knows me any more and no one that I know any more either. People have moved and passed away. So weird, right? All my connections are gone but the memories live inside me. Sometimes when I go back there I go down on the beach, sit there, remember, smile and cry. My heart is still there. :cry:

So all the way to the right of the street and that's where the beach is that I played on year round. To the left the second house from the left was mine. Only it's not there now. When I grew up there it was all beach cottages but after hurricane Sandy, nearly all the houses were raised up on concrete and mine was eventually razed and rebuilt into something I couldn't afford now if I wanted to.

So on that street is where I lived and played. I knew every neighbor's last name and some first names. I spent time IN some of those houses playing with the one child who lived on that block (we're still friends) and visiting between her house and her relatives down the corner there towards the beach and also our next door neighbor's house which was two grandparents who had me over to play Chinese checkers and suck up the juice from oranges that they brought back from Florida with those plastic things you stick in the oranges and makes itself a straw. One of my friends relatives (they had a little Turkish and Greek thing going on down that end of the block) wove rugs in his garage and sold them to stores. Small rugs and huge rugs. Across the street from them was The Blind Man's house (her uncle and his wife, I knew his last name but we always called him The Blind Man in our family. He would sit on his porch and his eyes were completely white but I don't know why ) and so on and so forth. I knew them all, was in their yards, in their homes, and ate their Turkish and Greek food.

And I knew people on other blocks around there. I used to go to kid's houses and my aunt would take me with her to a friend's house to sit there while she smoked cigs and played rummy, and I eventually learned how to play the card games. ;-) My friends and I rode bikes all over that town. So we knew people on other blocks as well. Their names, their families, had been in their houses for refreshments or played in their yards.

One winter, I remember my father took our toboggan loaded up with water and delivered it to everyone whose pipes had frozen. During a major hurricane the neighbor behind us where another of my friends lived (I played there in the yard and in their house) and her father who was on the first aid squad came to rescue the The Blind Man who had had a heart attack during the storm. I watched him walk down the street in flood water up to his chest guiding a small row boat down there to The Blind Man's house.

Today we know our neighbors names and see them, wave to them, but we do not really mingle together. When our kids were younger they did play with one of their kids but not a lot and they knew one of the neighbors behind us because she taught both of them. My kids grew up not really knowing many of their neighbors. I think people moved here for the same reasons. They wanted to get away from people and do their own thing. And so, we don't really get together with each other. Unless there is trouble and someone needs help, we all keep to ourselves. We watch each other's houses when we go away or shovel/pull someone out of a ditch in winter, but that's really the extent of it.

I have not been in all of the houses on this block. I do not know everyone's name.

When I pass through neighborhoods like I did today, I don't see anyone in their yards chatting or sitting in lawn chairs while children play or even sharing a cup of coffee outdoors. It seems to me that we have become an isolated society. It seems like we don't really know each other.

Why is that? I have a few theories such as our mobile society and I think the isolation I suspect is entirely detrimental to our society.

Anyway, this is what I really want to know. What did you know of your neighbors and if you feel like it, could you contrast that with how you live in your area today? Is it much the same as my own accounts or different?

Thanks for getting this far in the post if you did and for sharing if you feel like it. Share whatever you'd like. Take the discussion in whatever direction suits you.

Jersey
:-)

ETA: If this post reads oddly (more oddly than ususal) it's because it contained an image, I removed it and didn't go through the post to compensate for that deletion.
Last edited by Jersey Girl on Sun Jun 26, 2022 1:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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canpakes
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Re: Neighbors

Post by canpakes »

I like that some of the newer housing you were describing has porches out front and adjacent to each other. That can be a good catalyst for bringing back the kind of interactions between neighbors that may be absent more these days than in the past.

In Arizona, there were no such amenities built into the homes in our neighborhood. And given how hot it was for more than half of the year, not much of an incentive to be lingering outside to talk with neighbors, although we spent a lot of time with our immediate neighbor both in our backyard, and hers. It was OK for our own introverted personalities, and we did have access to a killer mountain trail literally a minute from our door - which we’d take advantage of almost daily - but one had to be willing to hike in 100+ degree heat during several months (which really ien’t as bad as it sounds), which - unfortunately - was not a draw for our neighbors.

It’s very different in our (relatively) new neighborhood. We have green space nearby for the kids and dogs. The streets are well-shaded with trees. The weather is so pleasant for most of the year, and folks are always out and walking about. We know all of our neighbors up and down the street, have traded meals, holiday cakes and long talks along the fence with many, and spend some weekends in outdoor activities with one a street over. And there are great kids everywhere, giving our own many opportunities for play and adventure.

I had hoped, when we moved, that we’d end up in a location that would let our children enjoy their early years to their fullest, while giving them the chance to make many lifelong friends. Several years into it, it looks like our last move might do just that.

I’ll keep thanking our lucky stars for our good fortune and will keep my fingers crossed. : )
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Jersey Girl
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Re: Neighbors

Post by Jersey Girl »

THIS is what I'm thinking about! You have it!
canpakes wrote:
Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:44 am
It’s very different in our (relatively) new neighborhood. We have green space nearby for the kids and dogs. The streets are well-shaded with trees. The weather is so pleasant for most of the year, and folks are always out and walking about. We know all of our neighbors up and down the street, have traded meals, holiday cakes and long talks along the fence with many, and spend some weekends in outdoor activities with one a street over. And there are great kids everywhere, giving our own many opportunities for play and adventure.

I had hoped, when we moved, that we’d end up in a location that would let our children enjoy their early years to their fullest, while giving them the chance to make many lifelong friends. Several years into it, it looks like our last move might do just that.

I’ll keep thanking our lucky stars for our good fortune and will keep my fingers crossed. : )
At the heart of my post is Maslow's Hierarchy. ;) And wondering if our families today are feeling that sense of belonging that we humans need. Even introverts need it. Also wondering if we are instilling a sense of distrust where belonging should be. Wondering if this contributes to the other type thinking. People feeling isolated, disconnected, and depressed leading to all sorts of societal ills. I might be over thinking it. That would be typical of me.

One of the things about our block and those around us is that the children have grown and the neighborhood is aging. I feel like I want to do something about it. Not the aging but the mingling. We do have a meeting place in our town where there are community gatherings. I think I want to be more present. But I am thinking of something having more to do with our neighbors. I used to deliver Christmas baked goods around years ago.

Thinking I want to do that again this holiday season. I might even do an open house. Hot chocolate and cookies type thing. Something like that...

Imma workin' on it!
We only get stronger when we are lifting something that is heavier than what we are used to. ~ KF

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MeDotOrg
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Re: Neighbors

Post by MeDotOrg »

In the Ken Burns documentary about Frank Lloyd Wright, the the sociological ramifications of moving the focus of family activity from the front porch to the back yard was a major point. It's the difference between a ranch house and a row house. In a row house neighborhood, the children play in the street while the parents kibbutz on the front porches. Mothers give implied consent for other mothers to correct their child's behavior. The ranch house moves everything to the back yard.

Besides the Ken Burns film, one of my Top 10 movies of all time is Avalon, directed by Barry Levinson of Diner fame. It follows the fortunes of brothers who move to America, and how prosperity, mobility and freedom gave them what they wanted but not what they needed. HIGHLY recommend Avalon.
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Gadianton
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Re: Neighbors

Post by Gadianton »

I liked this post a lot, especially the part about the neighbor who made the rugs. In these rural communities, everybody has their thing. When my parents were in decline, I did the same and pulled the Google Earth image of the house I grew up in and thought about those days. I grew up in California, in one of the most rural and green parts, where I lived in a small house on a half acre plot with a septic tank. We were poor, but I wouldn't say dirt poor. it felt like that though. Our neighbors on either side had full acre plots. We were kind of misfits. Everyone on that long road was right-wing, as were we, but my dad was an artist, whereas all the neighbors were multi-generational ranchers or tradesmen. We raised every crop imaginable, while the neighbors raised horses and hogs. On the other side of one neighbor were two more half-acre plots with the mechanically inclined bread-winners. They had all the fun stuff, go-karts and minibikes and lots of room for big tool shops.

I think there were some differences in right-wing culture back then. Integrity meant something back then, even among the roughest of the neighbors. There was a kid on the one side whose family was tough as nails, I wouldn't say he was a friend or an enemy, he was just too tough for me and so I was scared of him. One day he was throwing rocks at me "for fun" and took a nick out of my scalp, I told on him, my mom called his, and soon the neighbor lady had her son to our house apologizing through tears. That was unnerving, I'm sure she'd beat him good for that one. Well, that's not the "integrity" I'm talking about, but generally, mom owning the situation like that. Today, what would happen is mom would deny it and say her son is innocent and it was my brother and I who needed to be dealt with. The girls in that neighborhood were also tough. Another time, a Mormon friend of ours from another part of town was at our house playing and the girls from around the corner showed up on their horses; they're like 9, not teens. My friend was this athletic, natural leader type, and he mouthed off to one of the girls and she lashed him in the face with her horse whip.

But other things never change. The kid who threw the rocks had a bunch of guns and got me interested, and I eventually got a bb gun. He had a .410, pellet gun, and a 30-30 and we were eight or nine. They raised hogs, and one day it was time to slaughter the hog. Not sure what I was thinking, as I was always unnerved by the suffering of any animal, but I was interested in the guns. "Grandpa" was there to do the job with his .44 magnum. We had lots of cap guns and I knew what a .44 magnum was and was excited to see it in action. So I went over. I wouldn't say the adults over their were friendly to me, I was really intimidated, but I guess I was a neighbor so had a right to be there. I saw grandad prancing with his .44 in a belt holster. When the time came, I squeezed into the crowd but had a restricted view. What I remember most is the smell and the giant flies. Granddad pulled his gun and held it right to the face of the hog with both hands and pulled the trigger. Blood splattered and the hog screamed and jumped back and I also jumped back. An argument unfolded as Granddad had only grazed the hog. I stayed until the end, but didn't watch the rest.

So yeah, you still have these right-wing men who can't do anything useful with all their guns. Grandparents protecting kids in schools? Not when they can't even put down a hog point blank with a .44 magnum.
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Re: Neighbors

Post by honorentheos »

Surbanizing of America has been a major concern since WWII. It's hard to blame any one thing, whether it is our car-centric lifestyles, the socio-economics that drive efficiencies at scale that replace main streets with strip malls, globalization, television, social media, or the general shift in our society away from a society-focus to an individual-focus on everything from social roles to what provides the most identity capital. And like Canpakes' example suggests, where the neighborhood use to be a given regardless of economic status, its becoming accessible to someone with means and interest who can find it by moving to the right zip code...but that isn't an option for everyone. The appeal of affluent urban lifestyles as singles that transition into seeking out mid-century modernized historic and faux-historic neighborhoods is a choice one sees among certain usually white college educated folks.

We are somewhat of that middleclass, white-collar diaspora, having bought our home in an older part of Phoenix that was just showing signs of being the next area to take off when looking that is now heading strongly in that direction. A dwindling number of neighbors are original owners, particularly one across the street who is the historian. We've had block parties over there where the old families and new families get together for potluck-style get togethers and the like. My honest opinion of them is they are largely forced and done out of a desire to keep a neighborhood feel rather than out of any genuine sense of community. The facts are, geography-based community is a choice now where it was more of a given in the past.

Interestingly, when I was married in Utah in college, our off-campus student ward covered two different areas. One was a lower-income multi-family area of the college city and the other a large collection of condos. We chose to live in the lower-income part of the ward where we also knew the person we rented from so we got a discount on rent in the fourplex in exchange for being the handyman/handywoman if needed. Around 30-60% of the neighborhood was Hispanic, more than a few probably illegal. And we all knew each other within a few buildings in all directions even though most people weren't in our ward, I could join a soccer game almost any day when I had the time, we chatted regularly, asked favors like watching a kid for a short period of time or collecting mail when someone was going to be gone, etc. The folks in the condos knew one another from the ward but my sense of it was it wasn't nearly as communal or neighborly. One bought a condo to start the process of building capital so as to resell when one graduated college in order to have a down payment on a house when they moved away to their first job. Church, school, work, who had time for much else?
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Re: Neighbors

Post by honorentheos »

Gadianton wrote:
Sat Jun 25, 2022 4:03 pm
They raised hogs, and one day it was time to slaughter the hog. Not sure what I was thinking, as I was always unnerved by the suffering of any animal, but I was interested in the guns. "Grandpa" was there to do the job with his .44 magnum. We had lots of cap guns and I knew what a .44 magnum was and was excited to see it in action. So I went over. I wouldn't say the adults over their were friendly to me, I was really intimidated, but I guess I was a neighbor so had a right to be there. I saw grandad prancing with his .44 in a belt holster. When the time came, I squeezed into the crowd but had a restricted view. What I remember most is the smell and the giant flies. Granddad pulled his gun and held it right to the face of the hog with both hands and pulled the trigger. Blood splattered and the hog screamed and jumped back and I also jumped back. An argument unfolded as Granddad had only grazed the hog. I stayed until the end, but didn't watch the rest.
I grew upas a teen in rural Utah, being originally from one of the city areas until we moved when I was 13. Our neighbors raised a couple of hogs each year as well. They never shot them to slaughter them. Rather, they bled them. Its horrific. Listening to a hog scream over what seems like forever as it slowly bleeds to death is not something I like revisiting in memory.
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Jersey Girl
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Re: Neighbors

Post by Jersey Girl »

I did NOT expect this many replies. :shock: I thought most folks would think it a boring topic. I typically force myself to participate in the political threads that dominate this forum but truth is I really don't prefer them and that's putting it mildly.

I'm just starting to read here...and thank you!
Last edited by Jersey Girl on Sun Jun 26, 2022 1:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Neighbors

Post by Physics Guy »

I've been interested to read this thread. I guess I don't fit completely with any of it, but somewhat with all.

My father was in the army and we moved a lot, between army bases in which everyone else was also transitory anyway. So I have no hometown. A few years ago I got a chance to visit a house I had lived in nearly fifty years before, in the years 4-6 from which everything is vivid and basic and irrelevant. The tree and rock in the yard were just what I remembered. In a way so were the people, in that they were completely different people in the same circumstances. We spoke French with the young army wife in the house I remembered so surprisingly well. She seemed to be glad to talk with another adult and that was also familiar.

My wife stayed in one place until 17, and stayed pretty connected until her parents moved away much more recently, but she has just been back visiting her old haunts, and I'm not sure how very much different it is. This was our world, long ago. The childhood years were the most important, but a year is a long time for a child. The childhood months, really, then. They could have been quite varied.

Perhaps that's just how it seems to someone like me, who never had many years in one place.
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Re: Neighbors

Post by huckelberry »

Jersey Girl, you made this observation,
" I have not been in all of the houses on this block. I do not know everyone's name."

I was a bit taken aback. I have never in my seventy plus years lived in any situation even vaguely close to that. I may know a person or family on the block. Not always. As a child I grew up in somewhat older areas with backyards. Kids in the neighbor hood played with each other. My parents knew people through church or employment. The people in the neighborhood were usually neither.

I have wondered at times what would encourage more neighborly friendships but I do not know the answer.
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