Abortion Doctors Explain Just What Abortion Is

The Off-Topic forum for anything non-LDS related, such as sports or politics. Rated PG through PG-13.
Post Reply
Highwayman
Nursery
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2022 4:54 pm

Abortion Doctors Explain Just What Abortion Is

Post by Highwayman »

Image

https://youtu.be/n6SMxKVD4fQ

Dr. Norman MacLean performed up to 200 abortions very early in his medical career, but stopped after a year of performing them, and never performed another one. He did do 8000 births, including 2000 cesarean sections in his 40 year career!

https://youtu.be/SDQWSB9lHs0

Dr. Norman MacLean qualified in medicine at the Otago Medical School 50 years ago. He practice with In obstetrics and gynaecology for nearly 40 years, working for a number of years at the Southland hospital as a junior doctor, the National Women's Hospital in Auckland, followed by two years as a junior Specialist or registar In obstetrics and gynecology at the national specialist service in Dundee, Scotland. Following his time in Dundee, he returned to Southland to practice 38 years as a specialist gynecologist and obstetrician in Southland. During that time he has done in the area of 8000 verse, including two thousand cesarean sections. He performed up to 200 abortions early in his career but after a year of Performing abortions and being somewhat uneasy but cooperating with the system, he realized that this is not what he should be doing. It was not the medicine or the life-giving, healing medicine that he wanted to practice and from that day he stopped. In 2015, Dr Norman MacLean was named a member of the New Zealand order of Merit in the Queen's birthday honours for services to Obstetrics & Gynecology. Hear the truth about the reality of abortion including late-term abortions, the risk and harms of abortion to the mother, the importance of the heartbeat, fetal pain, the age of viability, and New Zealand's close connection to operative procedures performed on The Unborn Child during pregnancy. With the proposed new law, it would seem that the mother has all the right and no recognition of the existence of the baby, the life of the baby, or the value of the baby is considered. It's shocking beyond belief!
Vēritās
God
Posts: 1559
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2022 2:51 am

Re: Abortion Doctors Explain Just What Abortion Is

Post by Vēritās »

So one loon went off the rails into a religious direction so that means 99.9% of medical professionals who see abortion as a necessary medical service must be dismissed.

The Medical Community Says Abortion Access Is Health Care. Here's Why

As the US enters a post-Roe era, here are some reasons doctors consider abortion access to be health care.

The American Academy of Pediatrics, a college of pediatricians, on Friday reaffirmed its stance for "support for adolescents to receive comprehensive, evidence-based reproductive healthcare services, including abortion." Abortion restrictions impact children and teenagers who get pregnant, too.

The American Academy of Family Physicians also expressed its disapproval of the court's decision, saying the ruling "negatively impacts our practices and our patients by undermining the patient-physician relationship and potentially criminalizing evidence-based medical care."

According to the World Health Organization, a global health care agency of the United Nations, abortion is "a simple and common health care procedure" that occurs in roughly three out of 10 pregnancies worldwide. In the US, roughly one in four women will have an abortion before their 45th birthday, according to 2014 data.

Barriers to abortion access often turn patients to unsafe abortion, the WHO says, which currently account for about 45% of abortions worldwide. "Unsafe abortion" may refer to self-administered procedures or attempted abortions in unsterile environments or by people who aren't qualified health care providers. Roughly 5% to 13% of maternal deaths can be attributed to unsafe abortion, according to the WHO.

Here's what to know about abortion as a health care issue, and the reasons health care providers give for proclaiming it as such.

Abortion as a personal medical decision
In recent years, near-total abortion bans have been proposed or enacted in several states in the US, including Texas' law SB 8 and a bill in Ohio.

Such bans have turned up the volume on conversations about abortion, including abortion as a life-saving medical procedure as opposed to a right. Medically necessary cases include such life-threatening conditions as ectopic pregnancies, when the embryo implants outside the uterus and can't grow to term.

Dr. Jennifer Lincoln is a board-certified OB-GYN with an extensive social media following for her coverage of reproductive and pregnancy topics. Though there are medically necessary abortions, someone's reason for getting an abortion is beside the point, according to Lincoln.

"As an OB-GYN I could rattle off a list of medical conditions where a pregnancy could have killed a patient and an abortion was essential, but it is important to note that all abortions are essential," she said in an email.

"When we start to put qualifications on what abortions are 'OK' then we are on a slippery slope," Lincoln added.

There are some doctors who disagree that access to abortion is a health care issue. The American Association of Pro-Life Gynecologists and Obstetricians says in its mission statement that members believe life begins at fertilization, before a pregnancy officially begins. But that group, too, supports terminating a pregnancy in some cases, specifically when it's necessary to save someone's life.

The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists' position on abortion is that it should be legal and available to patients with healthy pregnancies up to fetal viability (when the fetus has a chance of surviving outside of the uterus). While it's generally understood to occur around 23 weeks, fetal viability is ultimately a "medical determination," according to the ACOG, and it may vary pregnancy to pregnancy.

But a health organization or agency maintaining patients' access to safe abortion doesn't require physicians to perform them. A 2019 study published in Obstetrics & Gynecology and reported by the Los Angeles Times found that fewer than one in four OB-GYNs were willing or able to perform abortions themselves. Reasons ranged from the personal to the practical, including restrictions where they practice. That means many patients were referred elsewhere.

Lincoln says she fully supports someone's decision to dislike or never have an abortion themselves. But abortion bans harm the health care system and erode trust in the patient-doctor relationship when that personal and professional line is blurred, according to Lincoln.

"We live in a world where you are not forced to donate your blood or your organs -- even if we know this could save a life before us," she said. "So why is it that we think it's OK to tell someone what to do with their pregnancy?"

Reducing abortion access will increase existing gaps in health care

About half of US states, including many in the Midwest and the South, will move to ban or restrict abortion, according to the Guttmacher Institute, an organization that endorses abortion access. Some states have automatic "trigger" laws already in place awaiting the overturn of Roe, which means bans will soon go into effect. Tennessee's law, for example, will outlaw abortion 30 days from now unless ending the pregnancy is "necessary to prevent the death of the pregnant woman or to prevent serious risk of substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function of the pregnant woman."

Pregnant people living in these states will be the most affected by a ban or further restrictions on abortion access -- specifically, people with lower incomes and those with less access to other health care services. About 75% of abortion patients were low-income in 2014, and nearly half lived below the federal poverty level.

Disproportionately, people of color living in Republican-led states, like Mississippi and Texas, will be affected by heavily restricted or banned abortion access. The US has the highest maternal mortality rate of all industrialized countries, according to the Commonwealth Fund, and Black women are more than twice as likely to die during pregnancy or childbirth than their white counterparts. Black infants in Texas, also, were twice as likely to die before their first birthday compared with white infants, the Commonwealth found. (This was before Texas SB 8 went into effect.)

Some states will continue to have relatively broad abortion access. Colorado and Rhode Island have reproductive rights codified into state law, for example, and some patients living in restricted states will be able to travel to states where abortion is legal for a procedure. However, this option is available only for people who have the time and resources to make the trip.

"Those who can afford to travel and pay for an abortion in a state like California will do so, while low-income, disabled and young people who can't travel outside their state may not be able to obtain a safe abortion," Paula Tavrow, director of the Bixby Program in Population and Reproductive Health at the University of California, Los Angeles, said in an email.

Under current laws, people are already traveling for abortions. Those living in states that have already heavily restricted abortion access, mostly concentrated in the Midwest and in the South, have been forced to travel long distances to get the procedure. In Missouri and South Dakota, for example, there's one abortion clinic in each state. State imposed "waiting periods" to make sure someone is certain about their decision to have an abortion often require people to make two long trips.

The need to travel can be a barrier for ending a pregnancy. In addition to having less money, most people in the US who have abortions already have children. Making one or more trips for an abortion procedure requires them to take time off work, miss out on wages and arrange child care, which can be impossible for many.

These second appointments and trips are part of laws in some areas even in the case of medication abortions -- two pills that induce a miscarriage, are taken at home and are safe and effective up to 10 weeks of pregnancy, according to the ACOG. The vast majority of abortions -- just under 93% -- take place in the first trimester at 13 weeks or earlier, according to the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The US Food and Drug Administration in December loosened the restrictions on medication abortion, making pills available by mail and telemedicine to patients. However, they're still not accessible for everyone. Some states have prohibited the use of telemedicine for patients seeking medication abortion pills. Demand for medication pills at overseas pharmacies is expected to go up as abortion restrictions increase. This is one reason that -- despite Texas' near-total abortion ban becoming effective in September -- abortion rates fell only 10%, The New York Times Reports.

Outlawing abortion won't stop it

"Access to safe abortion is a public health issue, because when people decide that they must abort they will find a way to do so," Tavrow said.

In countries where abortion is restricted, more abortions occur without a medically approved method or performed by someone who doesn't have proper training. These abortions account for about 4% to 13% of maternal deaths worldwide.

Tavrow, a researcher in population and reproductive health, has conducted research in Kenya, where abortion is illegal except in cases where the pregnant person's life is at risk. At one boarding school for girls she visited in Western Kenya, she said, it was estimated that 1% of its student population died from complications of illegal abortion.

"It is vital for everyone to realize that restricting abortion doesn't make it go away," Tavrow said.

Before Roe v. Wade, some women in the US got illegal abortions from physicians who agreed to break the law by providing the procedure. But many women in the US went to someone unlicensed who inserted instruments to try to induce a miscarriage, Tavrow said. These unsafe practices led to infection, hemorrhage or death in some cases. Other people would drink household chemicals that hadn't been proved to be effective for ending a pregnancy and could make a person seriously ill. Some herbs have traditionally worked as an abortifacient in some cases, Tavrow says, but they're "harmful if taken in large quantities."

Trying to determine how many people will die or develop complications from unsafe abortions in the US now that Roe v. Wade has been overturned is complicated. People who have illegal abortions have historically been less likely to seek treatment for complications.

"In my opinion, if Roe v. Wade were overturned, women would turn to relatively safe medications that can be purchased over the internet," Stanley Henshaw, a researcher for the Guttmacher Institute, told The Washington Post in a 2019 fact-check article. "There would be some deaths but probably not as many as there were in the 1960s."

The Turnaway Study by the University of California, San Francisco, looked at what happens when people carry unwanted pregnancies to term. In addition to effects on children born to people denied abortions, like poverty, one of the medical findings of the study concluded that people denied abortion were more likely to experience complications, including preeclampsia and death. One contributing factor is a lack of prenatal care.

According to the most recent CDC report on abortion data, two deaths were reported from (legal) abortion complications in 2018 -- a 0.41 death rate per 100,000 abortions from 2013 to 2018. By contrast, 658 maternal deaths were reported in 2018 -- a rate of 17.4 deaths per 100,000 live births, according to the CDC. These include deaths during pregnancy, birth and the postpartum period.
"I am not an American ... In my view premarital sex should be illegal ...(there are) mentally challenged people with special needs like myself- Ajax18
Highwayman
Nursery
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2022 4:54 pm

Re: Abortion Doctors Explain Just What Abortion Is

Post by Highwayman »

Image

Former abortionist Dr. Anthony levatino discusses how he became a pro-life activist. https://youtu.be/NGpTbamcvaM
User avatar
Gadianton
God
Posts: 3917
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:56 pm
Location: Elsewhere

Re: Abortion Doctors Explain Just What Abortion Is

Post by Gadianton »

A-Mike, as I've pointed out before, right-wing men don't really care about abortion. You can pretend you do, but you don't.
User avatar
Jersey Girl
God
Posts: 6886
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:51 am
Location: In my head

Re: Abortion Doctors Explain Just What Abortion Is

Post by Jersey Girl »

Highwayman wrote:
Sat Jun 25, 2022 5:31 pm
Image

https://youtu.be/n6SMxKVD4fQ

Dr. Norman MacLean performed up to 200 abortions very early in his medical career, but stopped after a year of performing them, and never performed another one. He did do 8000 births, including 2000 cesarean sections in his 40 year career!

https://youtu.be/SDQWSB9lHs0

Dr. Norman MacLean qualified in medicine at the Otago Medical School 50 years ago. He practice with In obstetrics and gynaecology for nearly 40 years, working for a number of years at the Southland hospital as a junior doctor, the National Women's Hospital in Auckland, followed by two years as a junior Specialist or registar In obstetrics and gynecology at the national specialist service in Dundee, Scotland. Following his time in Dundee, he returned to Southland to practice 38 years as a specialist gynecologist and obstetrician in Southland. During that time he has done in the area of 8000 verse, including two thousand cesarean sections. He performed up to 200 abortions early in his career but after a year of Performing abortions and being somewhat uneasy but cooperating with the system, he realized that this is not what he should be doing. It was not the medicine or the life-giving, healing medicine that he wanted to practice and from that day he stopped. In 2015, Dr Norman MacLean was named a member of the New Zealand order of Merit in the Queen's birthday honours for services to Obstetrics & Gynecology. Hear the truth about the reality of abortion including late-term abortions, the risk and harms of abortion to the mother, the importance of the heartbeat, fetal pain, the age of viability, and New Zealand's close connection to operative procedures performed on The Unborn Child during pregnancy. With the proposed new law, it would seem that the mother has all the right and no recognition of the existence of the baby, the life of the baby, or the value of the baby is considered. It's shocking beyond belief!
What are some reasons that women choose abortion in the 2nd trimester?
We only get stronger when we are lifting something that is heavier than what we are used to. ~ KF

Slava Ukraini!
User avatar
canpakes
God
Posts: 7079
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:25 am

Re: Abortion Doctors Explain Just What Abortion Is

Post by canpakes »

Jersey Girl wrote:
Sat Jun 25, 2022 9:03 pm
What are some reasons that women choose abortion in the 2nd trimester?

I’m going to bet that Highw-Atlanticmike isn’t going to engage that question. ; )
Highwayman
Nursery
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2022 4:54 pm

Re: Abortion Doctors Explain Just What Abortion Is

Post by Highwayman »

Jersey Girl wrote:
Sat Jun 25, 2022 9:03 pm
Highwayman wrote:
Sat Jun 25, 2022 5:31 pm
Image

https://youtu.be/n6SMxKVD4fQ

Dr. Norman MacLean performed up to 200 abortions very early in his medical career, but stopped after a year of performing them, and never performed another one. He did do 8000 births, including 2000 cesarean sections in his 40 year career!

https://youtu.be/SDQWSB9lHs0

Dr. Norman MacLean qualified in medicine at the Otago Medical School 50 years ago. He practice with In obstetrics and gynaecology for nearly 40 years, working for a number of years at the Southland hospital as a junior doctor, the National Women's Hospital in Auckland, followed by two years as a junior Specialist or registar In obstetrics and gynecology at the national specialist service in Dundee, Scotland. Following his time in Dundee, he returned to Southland to practice 38 years as a specialist gynecologist and obstetrician in Southland. During that time he has done in the area of 8000 verse, including two thousand cesarean sections. He performed up to 200 abortions early in his career but after a year of Performing abortions and being somewhat uneasy but cooperating with the system, he realized that this is not what he should be doing. It was not the medicine or the life-giving, healing medicine that he wanted to practice and from that day he stopped. In 2015, Dr Norman MacLean was named a member of the New Zealand order of Merit in the Queen's birthday honours for services to Obstetrics & Gynecology. Hear the truth about the reality of abortion including late-term abortions, the risk and harms of abortion to the mother, the importance of the heartbeat, fetal pain, the age of viability, and New Zealand's close connection to operative procedures performed on The Unborn Child during pregnancy. With the proposed new law, it would seem that the mother has all the right and no recognition of the existence of the baby, the life of the baby, or the value of the baby is considered. It's shocking beyond belief!
What are some reasons that women choose abortion in the 2nd trimester?
Did you know 75% of all nations do not permit abortion after 12 weeks gestation, except (in most instances) to save the life and to preserve the physical health of the mother.

Did you know 47 out of 50 European countries, independent states, and regions analyzed either do not allow elective abortion or limit elective abortion to 15 weeks or earlier?

No European nation allows elective abortion through all nine months of pregnancy, as is effectively permitted in several US states, and America is one of the only a small handful of Nations, along with China and North Korea, to permit any sort of late-term elective abortion.
User avatar
Jersey Girl
God
Posts: 6886
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:51 am
Location: In my head

Re: Abortion Doctors Explain Just What Abortion Is

Post by Jersey Girl »

Highwayman wrote:
Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:54 am
Jersey Girl wrote:
Sat Jun 25, 2022 9:03 pm


What are some reasons that women choose abortion in the 2nd trimester?
Did you know 75% of all nations do not permit abortion after 12 weeks gestation, except (in most instances) to save the life and to preserve the physical health of the mother.

Did you know 47 out of 50 European countries, independent states, and regions analyzed either do not allow elective abortion or limit elective abortion to 15 weeks or earlier?

No European nation allows elective abortion through all nine months of pregnancy, as is effectively permitted in several US states, and America is one of the only a small handful of Nations, along with China and North Korea, to permit any sort of late-term elective abortion.
Did you know that you failed to answer my question?
We only get stronger when we are lifting something that is heavier than what we are used to. ~ KF

Slava Ukraini!
Vēritās
God
Posts: 1559
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2022 2:51 am

Re: Abortion Doctors Explain Just What Abortion Is

Post by Vēritās »

Highwayman wrote:
Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:54 am
Did you know 75% of all nations do not permit abortion after 12 weeks gestation, except (in most instances) to save the life and to preserve the physical health of the mother.

Did you know 47 out of 50 European countries, independent states, and regions analyzed either do not allow elective abortion or limit elective abortion to 15 weeks or earlier?

No European nation allows elective abortion through all nine months of pregnancy, as is effectively permitted in several US states, and America is one of the only a small handful of Nations, along with China and North Korea, to permit any sort of late-term elective abortion.
Your point seems to be that The United States should strive to be like other countries?

Mitch McConnell and Mike Pence have said they'd love for there to be a Federal ban on abortion, making us like Malta, Honduras, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Dominican Republic, Egypt, Haiti, Iraq, Madagascar, the Philippines, Senegal and Suriname.

aortion world.jpg
aortion world.jpg (85.35 KiB) Viewed 526 times
Virtually all abortions in America take place within 12 weeks of gestation.
Last edited by Vēritās on Sun Jun 26, 2022 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I am not an American ... In my view premarital sex should be illegal ...(there are) mentally challenged people with special needs like myself- Ajax18
Vēritās
God
Posts: 1559
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2022 2:51 am

Re: Abortion Doctors Explain Just What Abortion Is

Post by Vēritās »

Jersey Girl wrote:
Sun Jun 26, 2022 12:04 pm
Highwayman wrote:
Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:54 am


Did you know 75% of all nations do not permit abortion after 12 weeks gestation, except (in most instances) to save the life and to preserve the physical health of the mother.

Did you know 47 out of 50 European countries, independent states, and regions analyzed either do not allow elective abortion or limit elective abortion to 15 weeks or earlier?

No European nation allows elective abortion through all nine months of pregnancy, as is effectively permitted in several US states, and America is one of the only a small handful of Nations, along with China and North Korea, to permit any sort of late-term elective abortion.
Did you know that you failed to answer my question?
Allow me...

This Is Why People Get Second-Trimester Abortions
The medical community typically views abortion in different categories: those that are performed in the first, second, and third trimester of a woman's pregnancy. First-trimester abortions are the most common. According to data from the Guttmacher Institute, nearly nine in 10 abortions are performed before a person is 12 weeks pregnant. To break it down further, the majority of abortions—66 percent—occur at eight weeks of pregnancy or earlier.

Because abortions so often take place at the start of a pregnancy, only 10 percent of women have the procedure at 13 weeks or later.

While abortion is legal in the U.S. because of the 1973 Supreme Court decision Roe v. Wade, various restrictions exist on state levels. According to the Guttmacher Institute, 16 states currently ban abortion when a woman is 20 weeks pregnant or further along, but some allow for abortions later than that in certain situations.

Many states' laws are similar to a recent one legislators are attempting to pass in Kentucky: They ban abortion after 20 weeks of pregnancy, but would make exceptions in the case of rape, incest, and life endangerment of the mother. However, fetal anomalies that would either make a baby severely handicapped or cause a fetus to die in utero or not long after birth are typically not addressed.

That can translate into a woman being forced to give birth to a baby that would only survive a few hours, days, or months. (You can see the full list of states and their restrictions on the Guttmacher Institute’s website.)

When you look at the reason behind these terminations [after the first trimester], overwhelmingly these are for pregnancies that are problematic—a fetal anomaly, perhaps something that is incompatible with life,” Lauren Streicher, M.D., an associate professor of clinical obstetrics and gynecology at Northwestern University Feinberg School of Medicine, tells SELF. “For the most part, these are desperately desired pregnancies.”

Kristyn Brandi, M.D., an ob/gyn and fellow with Physicians for Reproductive Health, agrees. “Typically what I’ve seen are patients that get the diagnosis that there is a lethal anomaly, and the fetus won’t survive,” she tells SELF.

That can be due to conditions such as microcephaly, a birth defect where a baby’s head is significantly smaller than expected, typically due to abnormal brain development, genetic abnormalities, and structural brain problems, she says. These abortions usually happen in the second trimester because it’s typically when a pregnant woman is tested to see if her fetus has these conditions, she says.

A fetus presenting with severe heart and/or lung issues and neural tube defects are also reasons why someone might have a second-trimester abortion, San Francisco Bay Area ob/gyn Jen Gunter, M.D., tells SELF. "Often there are several sets of anomalies," she says.

I can’t stress this enough," Streicher says. "These are often desperately desired pregnancies that have gone wrong.”

There are also less common reasons for second-trimester abortions. Some women have a lot of barriers to obtaining an abortion or don’t realize they’re pregnant until a later time, then are forced by legislation and mandated waiting periods to hold off until the second trimester to terminate a pregnancy, Brandi says.

Some women also receive a second-trimester abortions because their own health is in danger. For example, a woman may have hypertension so severe that she can die from a heart attack or stroke if she continues to be pregnant, Brandi says.

A pregnant woman might also develop cancer and be unable to receive treatment unless the pregnancy is terminated. “There are many situations where it truly is the choice of the life of the mother or the baby,” Streicher says. “As we see more older moms, there is a greater likelihood that someone might have a condition that impacts their health this severely.

Brandi calls abortion “incredibly safe,” even in the second trimester, noting that it’s actually safer than someone giving birth when they're full-term. “There are a lot of misconceptions about safety,” she says, which is why it’s so important that women discuss their options with their doctors. And the best thing doctors can do in return, Brandi says, is try to provide compassionate care, dispel myths, make sure their patients feel comfortable, and offer support.
"I am not an American ... In my view premarital sex should be illegal ...(there are) mentally challenged people with special needs like myself- Ajax18
Post Reply