DiscussMormonism.com

https://apnews.com/article/supreme-cour ... 7270c941aa

Three justices on the court attended public high schools themselves while the rest attended Catholic schools.

Stephen Breyer attended Lowell High School which was the subject of much debate and contention in SF recently. This was an interesting addition to the article.

I have a feeling there are a lot of feelings about to get very hurt but there will be no actual harm.

If a Mormon teacher has a visible "smile" from his/her garments, could they have legally taught school in the state of Washington?

Binger wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:28 am

If a Mormon teacher has a visible "smile" from his/her garments, could they have legally taught school in the state of Washington?

Quite easily. Nothing about that would violate any establishment clause case.

Res Ipsa wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:57 am

Binger wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:28 am

If a Mormon teacher has a visible "smile" from his/her garments, could they have legally taught school in the state of Washington?

Quite easily. Nothing about that would violate any establishment clause case.

I would be a better trapeze performer than a lawyer or judge.

I can't see the damn difference between having one's garments show through a shirt, wearing a kara or praying on the fifty yard line. I swear to god. I would not ask anyone to remove their kara, cover their garment line or stop praying in public. The audacity of asking anyone to cease doing any of those things blows my mind.

Binger wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 28, 2022 1:05 am

Res Ipsa wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:57 am

Quite easily. Nothing about that would violate any establishment clause case.

I would be a better trapeze performer than a lawyer or judge.

I can't see the damn difference between having one's garments show through a shirt, wearing a kara or praying on the fifty yard line. I swear to god. I would not ask anyone to remove their kara, cover their garment line or stop praying in public. The audacity of asking anyone to cease doing any of those things blows my mind.

Have you read the actual facts about the prayer?

Res Ipsa wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:17 am

Binger wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 28, 2022 1:05 am

I would be a better trapeze performer than a lawyer or judge.

I can't see the damn difference between having one's garments show through a shirt, wearing a kara or praying on the fifty yard line. I swear to god. I would not ask anyone to remove their kara, cover their garment line or stop praying in public. The audacity of asking anyone to cease doing any of those things blows my mind.

Have you read the actual facts about the prayer?

the court decision surprised me. the coach clearly prayed at an event at a time when he was still responsible for and overseeing his players. the pic shows him surrounded by his players still in full gear. for the court to say this was his "personal time" when he was free to check his email, make a dinner reservation, etc., shows an astonishing lack of understanding of how high school sports operate and the responsibilities held by coaches and staff at such events.

But the justices in the majority emphasized that the coach’s prayers came after the games were over and at a time when he wasn’t responsible for students and was free to do other things.

that is not true and an egregious misrepresentation of the responsibilities of coaching staff. if it was his "free time", who was responsible for the kids in the locker room? not him? this is so disappointing to read.

I haven't been able to read up on the case yet so I've not much to contribute there. That said my primary concern with prayer in public like this is that I've personally seen it turn into religious persecution, especially of those of other faiths.

I grew up in a deeply baptist area and prayer came with nearly every school event. I've watched Mormons and Muslims alike be chastised for praying incorrectly or not wishing to participate in a Christian prayer and no deference being given for another's religious affiliation. I've witnessed these public prayers be used to call some of these others folks to repentance, a wholly inappropriate thing to occur within the context of a sporting event or a debate. I recognize that those using prayer as a cudgel like this are likely doing so either unintentionally or with the best of intentions but it doesn't overwrite the problem.

I've nothing wrong with a teacher leading a prayer, even with students, on paper... in fact I acknowledge for a lot of folks that is a deeply comforting and bonding experience. In practice though I've watched it go awry far too often to be supportive of it. Unless someone has some really good suggestions for safeguarding against those kinds of discriminatory problems.

Marcus wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:04 pm

Res Ipsa wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:17 am

Have you read the actual facts about the prayer?

the court decision surprised me. the coach clearly prayed at an event at a time when he was still responsible for and overseeing his players. the pic shows him surrounded by his players still in full gear. for the court to say this was his "personal time" when he was free to check his email, make a dinner reservation, etc., shows an astonishing lack of understanding of how high school sports operate and the responsibilities held by coaches and staff at such events.

But the justices in the majority emphasized that the coach’s prayers came after the games were over and at a time when he wasn’t responsible for students and was free to do other things.

that is not true and an egregious misrepresentation of the responsibilities of coaching staff. if it was his "free time", who was responsible for the kids in the locker room? not him? this is so disappointing to read.

Gorsuch’s majority opinion is outright dishonest when it comes to the facts of the case. This happened just across the Sound from Seattle, so we had lots of media coverage as the events were happening.

This case caused a huge stink in the Ninth Circuit over what is usually an action taken without issuing an opinion (denial of a motion for en banc review). I’ll look up and link to the opinion by one of the three-judge panel members that puts the lie to the dishonest version of facts that Gorsuch recited.

Does anyone doubt for a second that the the Supreme Court decision would have been different if the coach's name was Akbar and he had rolled out a Muslim prayer cloth?

I just watched an interview with the coach and his attorney and his attorney said he never asked the kids to participate with him, and that this was just him praying on his own. If that were actually true then I wouldn't have a problem. But he had his team with him and they all knelt in unison at the 50 yd line. I'm just hoping some atheist or Muslim coach responds by pulling a similar stunt.

Res Ipsa wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 28, 2022 2:39 pm

Marcus wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:04 pm

the court decision surprised me. the coach clearly prayed at an event at a time when he was still responsible for and overseeing his players. the pic shows him surrounded by his players still in full gear. for the court to say this was his "personal time" when he was free to check his email, make a dinner reservation, etc., shows an astonishing lack of understanding of how high school sports operate and the responsibilities held by coaches and staff at such events.



that is not true and an egregious misrepresentation of the responsibilities of coaching staff. if it was his "free time", who was responsible for the kids in the locker room? not him? this is so disappointing to read.

Gorsuch’s majority opinion is outright dishonest when it comes to the facts of the case. This happened just across the Sound from Seattle, so we had lots of media coverage as the events were happening.

This case caused a huge stink in the Ninth Circuit over what is usually an action taken without issuing an opinion (denial of a motion for en banc review). I’ll look up and link to the opinion by one of the three-judge panel members that puts the lie to the dishonest version of facts that Gorsuch recited.

Please do.