The fruits of nonglobal environmental regulations

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canpakes
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Re: The fruits of nonglobal environmental regulations

Post by canpakes »

Hawkeye wrote:
Tue Jun 28, 2022 2:17 am
Let's talk about Europe. People like you and Greta Thunberg have been in charge over there for the last half a century? Is western Europe energy independent? Has it saved the planet? Because from my perspective, it looks like they've just been paying more for gasoline all this time.

OK, so market preferences demanded oil that was cheaper than ‘green alternatives’ at the time, but now that the cost of oil has increased dramatically, it’s the fault of alternative energy options. Got it.

And in the end green technology just led to dependence of Russian fossil fuels. Are they in much better shape economically and environmentally now because of their anti fossil fuel policies? Did you even read the article and take note of what the result has been in France today?

Then, if only no European countries had bothered to ever opt for development and use of alternatives, and instead had all maintained a complete dependence upon Russian fossil fuels, they’d be much better off during today’s conditions, right?
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Re: The fruits of nonglobal environmental regulations

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Hawkeye wrote:
Tue Jun 28, 2022 2:17 am
If the green new deal had actually been in effect and passed years ago, we would be in much better shape both economically and environmentally than we are now.
Well your party is in power. Say that Democrats retain control for another two years, what's your prediction for the next two years on gasoline costs? Will they start to come down then because of superior liberal Democrat green policies? How many degrees is it going to change the earth's temperature?
As long as we have uncooperative rebels like Sinema and Manchin in the party who refuse to consider ending the filibuster and who are clearly as much beholden to big oil and fossil fuel donors as the worst of the Republicans, it is questionable how effective our control will be. As for high gasoline prices, I see little hope for them to come down significantly or stay down, no matter who is in charge. If they stay up, that is all the more reason to accelerate our transition to green energy as shown by the RMI site. Whether gasoline prices actually do come down significantly or not, the faster we transition to the green policies and efficiency standards that RMI and others are advocating, the better off we will be both economically and environmentally, and the more energy independent we will be, and the more money we will save. That is a no-brainer, believe it or not. As for how many or few degrees change there will be in a short two years, is it really reasonable to argue that if we can't instantly fix everything all at once, we should just throw up our hands in despair and not try at all?
Let's talk about Europe. People like you and Greta Thunberg have been in charge over there for the last half a century? Is western Europe energy independent? Has it saved the planet? Because from my perspective, it looks like they've just been paying more for gasoline all this time. And in the end green technology just led to dependence of Russian fossil fuels. Are they in much better shape economically and environmentally now because of their anti fossil fuel policies? Did you even read the article and take note of what the result has been in France today?
You obviously didn't bother to look at the RMI site either, did you?
Last edited by Gunnar on Tue Jun 28, 2022 2:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
No precept or claim is more suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
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Re: The fruits of nonglobal environmental regulations

Post by Gunnar »

canpakes wrote:
Tue Jun 28, 2022 2:46 am
Hawkeye wrote:
Tue Jun 28, 2022 2:17 am
Let's talk about Europe. People like you and Greta Thunberg have been in charge over there for the last half a century? Is western Europe energy independent? Has it saved the planet? Because from my perspective, it looks like they've just been paying more for gasoline all this time.

OK, so market preferences demanded oil that was cheaper than ‘green alternatives’ at the time, but now that the cost of oil has increased dramatically, it’s the fault of alternative energy options. Got it.

And in the end green technology just led to dependence of Russian fossil fuels. Are they in much better shape economically and environmentally now because of their anti fossil fuel policies? Did you even read the article and take note of what the result has been in France today?

Then, if only no European countries had bothered to ever opt for development and use of alternatives, and instead had all maintained a complete dependence upon Russian fossil fuels, they’d be much better off during today’s conditions, right?
It's dismaying how many conservatives just can't seem to get that no matter how one slices it, European countries would be worse off now than they are had they not opted for development and use of alternatives. And they are getting closer and closer to being carbon neutral, which is only a good thing according to reasonable and scientifically literate people.
No precept or claim is more suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
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Re: The fruits of nonglobal environmental regulations

Post by canpakes »

.
ajax, can you tell me what incentives exists for oil companies to increase the number of rigs they operate along with the number of folks they employ and pay, while simultaneously decreasing the price they get for a barrel of oil?
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Re: The fruits of nonglobal environmental regulations

Post by Gunnar »

canpakes wrote:
Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:24 am
.
ajax, can you tell me what incentives exists for oil companies to increase the number of rigs they operate along with the number of folks they employ and pay, while simultaneously decreasing the price they get for a barrel of oil?
Add to that the fact conservative politicians who are among the main beneficiaries of oil company bribes are probably actually happy with high priced gasoline as long as they can pretend it is somehow Biden's fault.
No precept or claim is more suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
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Re: The fruits of nonglobal environmental regulations

Post by Hawkeye »

canpakes wrote:
Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:24 am
.
ajax, can you tell me what incentives exists for oil companies to increase the number of rigs they operate along with the number of folks they employ and pay, while simultaneously decreasing the price they get for a barrel of oil?
Fossile fuels are still provide far more energy at a lower cost than green alternatives. Green energy is far more expensive as we're seeing now. When you promise to outlaw and tax fossil fuels out of existence don't be surprised if investors don't jump at the opportunity to invest several billion dollars to drill and refine a couple million dollars worth of oil for the next two years and no longer. These gas prices are the result of Democrat policy and you should own it. And you should also have to demonstrate to the American taxpayer exactly how much this has done to alleviate the global climate crisis while countries like India and China continue to pollute with impunity and undercut American manufacturers.
The best part about this is waiting four years to see how all the crazy apocalyptic predictions made by the fear mongering idiots in Right Wing media turned out to be painfully wrong...Gasoline would hit $10/gallon. Hyperinflation would ensue.
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canpakes
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Re: The fruits of nonglobal environmental regulations

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Hawkeye wrote:
Tue Jun 28, 2022 6:21 pm
Fossile fuels are still provide far more energy at a lower cost than green alternatives. Green energy is far more expensive as we're seeing now. When you promise to outlaw and tax fossil fuels out of existence don't be surprised if investors don't jump at the opportunity to invest several billion dollars to drill and refine a couple million dollars worth of oil for the next two years and no longer.

I’m not aware of any legislation that attempts to outlaw and tax fossil fuels ‘out of existence’, ajax. Even the tax rate on coal for producers is minimal, being the lower of either $1.10 per ton, or 4.4% of sales or use. It’s even less for surface-mined coal.

Some municipalities have recently instituted bans on natural gas appliances being installed in new housing developments, but even those efforts are countered by the fact that
twenty states have passed so-called “preemption laws” that prohibit cities from banning natural gas.

Fossil fuels are still generally the King of the Hill when it comes to BTU per unit cost, but that’s changing; right now wind power is comparable or less than fossil fuel use, at 0.05 to 0.09/kWh, without financial subsidies. It works well enough for the state of Texas, which uses wind power to provide more than 20% of its electrical energy needs.

These gas prices are the result of Democrat policy and you should own it.

Maybe you should ‘own’ the idea of supporting wild claims with some sort of data. Please tell me how ‘Democrat policies’ raised gas prices worldwide dramatically over the last few months.

I’ll wait.
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Re: The fruits of nonglobal environmental regulations

Post by Vēritās »

Vēritās wrote:
Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:49 am
Can we please dispense with this silly "Biden won't let more oil be pumped" explanation.

Texas Survey Shows Why Oil Producers Aren’t Drilling More
Oil and gas executives don’t have much love for President Biden, but he’s not the main reason they’re holding off on drilling new wells.

The latest quarterly survey put out by the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas shows that most executives are reticent about ramping up drilling because of pressure from investors and lenders, not from government regulations.

U.S. producers reluctant to drill more oil, despite sky-high gas prices
oilwlllstreet.jpg
oilwlllstreet.jpg (147.5 KiB) Viewed 277 times
I'm just going to quote myself on this from earlier today. Ajax does this all the time when completely refuted on one of his preferred talking points. He just starts another thread, repeats the same falsehoods, and uses his other moniker to give the impression that he's got support. :lol:
"I am not an American ... In my view premarital sex should be illegal ...(there are) mentally challenged people with special needs like myself- Ajax18
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Re: The fruits of nonglobal environmental regulations

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Hawkeye wrote:
Tue Jun 28, 2022 2:17 am
If the green new deal had actually been in effect and passed years ago, we would be in much better shape both economically and environmentally than we are now.
Well your party is in power. Say that Democrats retain control for another two years, what's your prediction for the next two years on gasoline costs? Will they start to come down then because of superior liberal Democrat green policies? How many degrees is it going to change the earth's temperature?

Let's talk about Europe. People like you and Greta Thunberg have been in charge over there for the last half a century? Is western Europe energy independent? Has it saved the planet? Because from my perspective, it looks like they've just been paying more for gasoline all this time. And in the end green technology just led to dependence of Russian fossil fuels. Are they in much better shape economically and environmentally now because of their anti fossil fuel policies? Did you even read the article and take note of what the result has been in France today?
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Vēritās
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Re: The fruits of nonglobal environmental regulations

Post by Vēritās »

Saying the Democrats are the party "in power" is disingenuous when its a 50/50 split and there are at least two DINOS who are effectively blocking everything the Biden administration is trying to get done.

And one must be a complete moron to judge the success of an energy policy solely on how it makes gas cheaper at the pump. Europe's green efforts have nothing to do with saving money in the short term, they're smart enough to play the long game and it will not only cut costs in the long term but also save the environment.
"I am not an American ... In my view premarital sex should be illegal ...(there are) mentally challenged people with special needs like myself- Ajax18
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