God Creation

The Off-Topic forum for anything non-LDS related, such as sports or politics. Rated PG through PG-13.
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Jersey Girl
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Re: God Creation

Post by Jersey Girl »

Gunnar wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:32 am
Jersey Girl wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:00 am
Gunnar, you of all people should've recognized the importance of context and read the post or perhaps two posts prior that which resulted in that particular remark instead of singling out one post without wondering what preceded it. Is your intellectual curiosity on vacation or something? Tell it to get back home.

If we had a threaded view you'd see the exchanges fanning out to the side. We have to work a little harder on this linear format.

Get to work, man!!

I've known you so long that I can pick out your posts while scrolling fast without even seeing your screen name! True fact!
I'm just going to blame it all on the Covid-19 I just recently recovered from. :P
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Hawkeye
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Re: God Creation

Post by Hawkeye »

If there were an actual deity speaking with people and providing the basis for those beliefs we'd see they were the same across cultures. They are not.
Can you give me an example of how they're different? How close do you believe the moral truths of different cultures/religions need to be to consider them inspired by God? If they are that different, is this sufficient reason for one culture to fear and resist mixing with another?
The best part about this is waiting four years to see how all the crazy apocalyptic predictions made by the fear mongering idiots in Right Wing media turned out to be painfully wrong...Gasoline would hit $10/gallon. Hyperinflation would ensue.
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Re: God Creation

Post by Chap »

honorentheos wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:50 am
If true belief persuades people to act for the common good, it stands to reason successful human cultures would have these memes (in the cultural evolutionary sense) in common. They do. If there were an actual deity speaking with people and providing the basis for those beliefs we'd see they were the same across cultures. They are not.
I don't understand what you are trying to say here. Firstly you appear to be saying that "successful human cultures" (whatever those may be thought to be) have certain things in common. Then you seem to say that the lack of commonality across cultures is marked enough to show that divine revelation cannot be at work.

Could you clarify, please?
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Res Ipsa
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Re: God Creation

Post by Res Ipsa »

Hawkeye wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:50 pm
If there were an actual deity speaking with people and providing the basis for those beliefs we'd see they were the same across cultures. They are not.
Can you give me an example of how they're different? How close do you believe the moral truths of different cultures/religions need to be to consider them inspired by God? If they are that different, is this sufficient reason for one culture to fear and resist mixing with another?
Who are you talking to?
he/him
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honorentheos
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Re: God Creation

Post by honorentheos »

Chap wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:18 pm
honorentheos wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:50 am
If true belief persuades people to act for the common good, it stands to reason successful human cultures would have these memes (in the cultural evolutionary sense) in common. They do. If there were an actual deity speaking with people and providing the basis for those beliefs we'd see they were the same across cultures. They are not.
I don't understand what you are trying to say here. Firstly you appear to be saying that "successful human cultures" (whatever those may be thought to be) have certain things in common. Then you seem to say that the lack of commonality across cultures is marked enough to show that divine revelation cannot be at work.

Could you clarify, please?
The key to understanding the point is recognizing social structures are subject to the same forces as biology when it comes to evolutionary theory. Social behaviors and memes (by the original, pre-internet definition) are like genetics where the most advantageous social behaviors improve group fitness for survival while those groups that lack those memes fail and disappear.

This is one reason why I'm reluctant to disparage religion in it's general form. Facts are, anything that exists in the world today that made it through evolutionary pressures did so while in competition with other ideas and behaviors. It's hubris to imagine we have evolved alternative behaviors that displace them and provide better fitness. This discussion overlays the dilemma I see in our post-modern world not having existed long enough to demonstrate it is a fit adaptation that will ultimately win out. Kinda like liberal Western Democracy, the stress at present is how evolution works. Death and social failure are essential to the process. And belief in some ideal has been a powerful feature of successful human groups for a long time.

The so-called religious instinct is practically universal to human cultures. But religious form is as varied among cultures as can be.

This suggests that the benefits a social group gained from having idealized beliefs helped them outcompete groups that lacked those memes. But there isn't an objective, independent God (meaning something that exists external to the subjective human experience)out there giving human beings true religion. Like creature developing eyes, flight, and other biological traits through multiple paths that seem like "design" to anyone ignorant of evolutionary pressures acting to effect certain forms that appear because they are more successful than not having them, shared beliefs seem to be very valuable for group success.
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Jersey Girl
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Re: God Creation

Post by Jersey Girl »

Chap wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:48 am
Jersey Girl wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:58 am

[...]

Get AWAY from me. Nobody likes you canpakes. Not one single soul on this board likes you.

You can't control me, canpakes.
Jersey Girl - i do not dislike canpakes, and I frequently read his posts with interest, whether I agree with them or not.

I suggest that a good remedy for the annoyance that reading posts by canpakes apparently causes you might be to put him on ignore for a while.
1. You didn't read my posts in context.

2. I do not dislike canpakes either.

3. I was joking. :roll:

4. You can't put mods or admin on ignore Mr. Hotshot Advice Giver. :roll:
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Jersey Girl
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Re: God Creation

Post by Jersey Girl »

Marcus wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:41 pm
Jersey Girl wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:58 am

[...]

Get AWAY from me. Nobody likes you canpakes. Not one single soul on this board likes you.

You can't control me, canpakes.
:lol: well. at least i know you well enough now to laugh at this. early on in my posting here, i recall i asked you to quit being so mean to ... i think it was some schmo. you told me you guys were friends from way back and to BUTT OUT!

:D discussion boards. a microcosm of life.

Oh look, an insightful poster. :lol:
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Jersey Girl
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Re: God Creation

Post by Jersey Girl »

Some Schmo wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:23 pm
Gunnar wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 4:55 pm

You are dead wrong about that, Jersey Girl and I doubt that you believe that yourself. I am surprised that you even said it. Canpakes, like you, is high on my list of most interesting and best-informed posters here, and I respect and agree with what he has to say more often than I disagree with him.
I read it as Jersey Girl kidding around.

But reading text never gives you the tone the writer intended, so it's hard to know for sure in any given case.
Are we done with our exchanges Schmo?
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Marcus
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Re: God Creation

Post by Marcus »

Jersey Girl wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:30 pm
Marcus wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:41 pm


:lol: well. at least i know you well enough now to laugh at this. early on in my posting here, i recall i asked you to quit being so mean to ... i think it was some schmo. you told me you guys were friends from way back and to BUTT OUT!

:D discussion boards. a microcosm of life.

Oh look, an insightful poster. :lol:
:lol: i have tried explaining to my 20-something child that i have friends online, he rolls his eyes every time. His loss, right?!! :D
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Some Schmo
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Re: God Creation

Post by Some Schmo »

Jersey Girl wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:33 pm
Are we done with our exchanges Schmo?
Not if you have more to say.

I read your explanation regarding indoctrination and found it interesting, but I don't think we're seeing it in the same way. I just don't want to press the issue. I don't have any problem with the way you live your life, and I'm sincere when I say that you aren't the type of religious person I've been referring to in this thread.
Religion is for people whose existential fear is greater than their common sense.
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