God Creation

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Some Schmo
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Re: God Creation

Post by Some Schmo »

Vēritās wrote:
Sun Jul 17, 2022 1:55 pm
Some Schmo wrote:
Sun Jul 17, 2022 1:12 pm

This is one of the dumbest things you've ever posted. Congrats.
I'm thinking (hoping?) he was being facetious.
Hmmm... yeah, I hope so too. It does seem really over the top for honor.

If you were just damned with me, honor, congrats for real. You got me.
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Vēritās
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Re: God Creation

Post by Vēritās »

I consider myself open to the possibility that there is a God, I just haven't seen any hard evidence of it. If there is a God, I'm 100% confident it isn't a personal God like the majority of the planet believes. Meaning, God may be out there but he just doesn't care about what goes on in our personal lives.

I'm 120% confident that the Mormon concept of God is wrong, if not just illogical or even retarded. It seems like something someone who write's fairytales for a living would come up with.

I credit my years as a Mormon apologist for my current status. It wasn't just the Book of Abraham stuff that proved Joseph Smith couldn't translate ancient documents, it was also the powerful evidence from Ancient Near East, demonstrating that the Bible we've all come to believe is God's word, all began with Babylonian creation myths which it basically mimicked.
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Some Schmo
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Re: God Creation

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Vēritās wrote:
Sun Jul 17, 2022 2:00 pm
I consider myself open to the possibility that there is a God, I just haven't seen any hard evidence of it. If there is a God, I'm 100% confident it isn't a personal God like the majority of the planet believes. Meaning, God may be out there but he just doesn't care about what goes on in our personal lives.

I'm 120% confident that the Mormon concept of God is wrong, if not just illogical or even retarded. It seems like something someone who write's fairytales for a living would come up with.

I credit my years as a Mormon apologist for my current status. It wasn't just the Book of Abraham stuff that proved Joseph Smith couldn't translate ancient documents, it was also the powerful evidence from Ancient Near East, demonstrating that the Bible we've all come to believe is God's word, all began with Babylonian creation myths which it basically mimicked.
Agreed.

I would never say there can't be a god, or that I'm positive none exist. It's just that all evidence points to it being one of those ideas that has enjoyed being repeated so much, it's become real for millions.

Of course, the same can be said for Capt. Kirk and Darth Vader (not to mention the entire GOP narrative).
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Chap
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Re: God Creation

Post by Chap »

Some Schmo wrote:
Sun Jul 17, 2022 5:39 am
I've been thinking a lot about how people make up their own gods and referring to their creation as "god", a.k.a. the one everyone is talking about when they refer to "god." (Side note: isn't it interesting people will say "god" like it's an external entity everyone one is familiar with? It's like me making up a word like "smarkoff" and saying it as though everyone knows exactly what I'm talking about when in reality, they have no idea).
I think this is a very important point that is too rarely made in discussions about issues such as atheism, and you have hit the nail right on the head.

The problem is that most of the people one meets in advanced western countries have been brought up within the broad tradition of what are often called the 'Abrahamic religions'* - Judaism, Christianity and Islam, most frequently the second of these. All three have for centuries agreed that the universe, including all the creatures in it, was created and is sustained by a single all-powerful and all-seeing entity, who is the source of the moral order and by various means makes his nature and his will known to mankind. In English this entity may be called 'God' - a term that may have come from pre-Germanic words meaning 'what one offers libations to', or 'what one invokes'. Religious Jews and Muslims use other terms, whether in an English language context or in Hebrew or Arabic, but whatever term used in a person's own religious community, the impression is given that both the speaker and the hearer understand that term as referring to some well-known, well-defined and unambiguous thing like "The President of the United States of America".

But a few minutes conversation with different believers, even members of the same sect, will usually reveal that no such consensus really exists. There often seem to be as many different referents of a term like 'god' as there are believers. To avoid getting entangled in the false assumption that the 'god' (or whatever') referred to by some particular believer is, well, just God, I tend in any reply to their claims to use the term 'your deity' or 'the deity of your religion'. For some reason, that sometimes seems to annoy the hell out of people - which reassures me that they may be beginning to realise that the solid ground on which they thought they stood is nothing like so firm as they thought it was.

Of course this problem only occurs in a severe form in cultures where the Abrahamic religions dominate. Large parts of humanity live in cultures where it is taken for granted that the universe is full of many powerful but non-material beings who may require or at least accept human worship. In such cultures it may seem bizarre that the Abrahamic deity is said to claim that he is the only deity around. This little scene from the sitcom My Name is Earl captures something about the cultural encounters this may lead to:
Darnell: He's going to be okay, right, doc?
Indian doctor: Define "okay."
Catalina: Not dead.
Doctor: I don't know.
Randy: Can't you tell us anything good about Earl?
Doctor: He has a fantastic mustache and, praise be to Ganesh it was unharmed. Other than that, all we can do is pray. I bet you wish you had more than one god now, uh?

* So called because all of them agree on the important role ascribed to the (almost certainly) mythical figure of Abraham in their origins.
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Some Schmo
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Re: God Creation

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Chap wrote:
Sun Jul 17, 2022 2:10 pm
But a few minutes conversation with different believers, even members of the same sect, will usually reveal that no such consensus really exists. There often seem to be as many different referents of a term like 'god' as there are believers. To avoid getting entangled in the false assumption that the 'god' (or whatever') referred to by some particular believer is, well, just God, I tend in any reply to their claims to use the term 'your deity' or 'the deity of your religion'. For some reason, that sometimes seems to annoy the hell out of people - which reassures me that they may be beginning to realise that the solid ground on which they thought they stood is nothing like so firm as they thought it was.
Yes!

It was this board, actually, that impressed me with how obviously unique every human's definition of their god was. This also extends to which tenets of their religion they accept and which ones they reject, or which parts of the Bible they believe/don't believe.

Ultimately, it seems to me everyone is running around with their own unique religion they assume everyone else of that broad religious category is carrying.
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honorentheos
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Re: God Creation

Post by honorentheos »

Vēritās wrote:
Sun Jul 17, 2022 1:55 pm
Some Schmo wrote:
Sun Jul 17, 2022 1:12 pm

This is one of the dumbest things you've ever posted. Congrats.
I'm thinking (hoping?) he was being facetious.
It's just crap I've been told in different forms by folks who think being raised Mormon primes you for atheism rather than an issue with modern Judeo-Christianity. So I guess it being one of the dumbest thing I've ever posted is amusing.
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Some Schmo
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Re: God Creation

Post by Some Schmo »

honorentheos wrote:
Sun Jul 17, 2022 2:44 pm
Vēritās wrote:
Sun Jul 17, 2022 1:55 pm
I'm thinking (hoping?) he was being facetious.
It's just crap I've been told in different forms by folks who think being raised Mormon primes you for atheism. So, I guess it being one of the dumbest thing I've ever posted is amusing.
Dude... killer. This experience has reminded me of something I've been telling myself for years: don't read and react to posts first thing in the morning. I feel like a moron right now.

Your post totally had a religious apologetic feel to it, and I'm mad at myself for not seeing what you were doing there right away.
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honorentheos
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Re: God Creation

Post by honorentheos »

Some Schmo wrote:
Sun Jul 17, 2022 2:48 pm
honorentheos wrote:
Sun Jul 17, 2022 2:44 pm

It's just crap I've been told in different forms by folks who think being raised Mormon primes you for atheism. So, I guess it being one of the dumbest thing I've ever posted is amusing.
Dude... killer. This experience has reminded me of something I've been telling myself for years: don't read and react to posts first thing in the morning. I feel like a moron right now.

Your post totally had a mopologetic feel to it, and I'm mad at myself for not seeing what you were doing there right away.
Ah, no worries. I try not to use too many "bros" when I post seriously but I can see how mopologists me might always put one at the end of a paragraph of nonsense, giving it the right amount of condescension to be convincing, perhaps.
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Some Schmo
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Re: God Creation

Post by Some Schmo »

honorentheos wrote:
Sun Jul 17, 2022 2:50 pm
Ah, no worries. I try not to use too many "bros" when I post seriously but I can see how mopologists me might always put one the end of a paragraph of nonsense, giving it the right amount of condescension to be convincing, perhaps.
By far, the "bro" is what should have tipped me off the most (other than the fact everything you were saying sounded completely contrary to what I thought your view was).
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Re: God Creation

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I was thinking about an experience I had when I was young that has definitely contributed to the views I'm expressing.

I was about 9 - 10 when a new family of converts joined our ward. They had a son my age who I thought was pretty smart and funny, and we quickly became friends. We went to each other's house's every Sunday between the morning and evening services (back when they did it that way), played with toys or whatever, and had lunch with each other's families.

So I got to know why his parents joined the church, and it was essentially one thing: the Word of Wisdom. This family was strictly vegetarian, and they were over the moon that a religion honored personal health like the church did.

However, I also remember them telling me their doubts about certain church teachings. I don't think they bought the idea that a god actually visited Joe Smith. I don't think they were big on the woman serving the man. Stuff like that. I also remember that they thought the church didn't emphasize the Word of Wisdom enough.

Over time, I got to see my friend less and less as they were not attending regularly like they used to. Eventually, they quit. There was one thing they loved about the church, but over time, they realized it didn't have enough other good teachings to keep them there. They were the first stark example I had of someone living Mormonism in a way that was different than how I thought everyone lived it.
Religion is for people whose existential fear is greater than their common sense.

The god idea is popular with desperate people.
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