I tend to frame what you say above as good reason to be openly skeptical of someone's justification for behaviors that are only defensible because "God". The unknowable immensity of the cosmos contrasted with the potential for elevated human behavior above the primal, biological demands that women who the community calls a witch be burned? You sure about that? Two dudes find one another attractive and form a relationship, and the unknowable immensity of the cosmos contrasted with the potential for elevated human behavior above the primal, biological forbids it? You sure? Oh, you mean that the unknowable immensity of the cosmos contrasted with the potential for elevated human behavior above the primal, biological is synonymous with a modern interpretation of the evolved paternal deity of the mythologies of Indo-European/Semitic/Greco-Romantic cultures filtered through socio-economic political dynamics in an increasingly inequitable pluralistic society facing rising climatic catastrophes that are, in part, of their own making? Huh. Seems dubious to say that justifies telling someone else they can't be in a relationship you otherwise have no interest in. But please, tell me how this works...
Well, you kill babies, so …
Nice rant, by the way. I’m vibin’, no cap fr fr.
- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
God Almighty! All this god stuff is getting on my nerves.
Yes, I know
But ...
It is certainly not going to help us poor reckless humans survive the challenges that face use in the decades ahead. If anything, the reverse.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Mayan Elephant:
Not only have I denounced the Big Lie, I have denounced the Big lie big lie.
The problem is that most people don't. They think it's letters from their god. And as you pointed out, there is wisdom contained in the Bible, which helps its divine credibility for a lot of people. It's all the crap they're ignoring to maintain the illusion of divine inspiration that drives me nuts.
Yes, I agree that is indeed the problem. And is and has been exacerbated by the hard right conservatives' hell bound determination to dumb down the American electorate and discourage critical thought and honest consideration of a diversity of opinions, no matter how well-considered or evidence based.
It's both disgusting and frightening to me how, to hard right conservatives, the very concept of "diversity" has come to be regarded by them as something inherently evil and Satanic.
Last edited by Gunnar on Sun Jul 17, 2022 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
No precept or claim is more suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
It's just crap I've been told in different forms by folks who think being raised Mormon primes you for atheism rather than an issue with modern Judeo-Christianity. So I guess it being one of the dumbest thing I've ever posted is amusing.
For the record, I, for one, had little doubt that you were just being facetious.
Last edited by Gunnar on Sun Jul 17, 2022 10:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
No precept or claim is more suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
Reading up on Anais Nin? Nah. You got it right in every sense.
No, watching Donald Hoffman videos.
Thanks, Schmo, DocCam and Honorentheos! Collectively you have managed to pique my interest in Anais Nin and Donald Hoffman! Now I feel compelled to spend much of the next week or so, at least, watching Donald Hoffman videos and reading up on Anais Nin! Like I didn't already have enough other stuff to obsess over and pursue on the internet!
No precept or claim is more suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
I have seriously been listening to Donald Hoffman all day. Talk about a new way of looking at things.
Of course I'm skeptical, but I'll admit it's fun to think of the fundamental elements of existence being conscious agents. I've actually thought in similar terms before, that we are conscious entities using the physical world as an interface (a sort of "in a simulation" hypothesis), but I've generally chalked it up to me wishing for my consciousness to be persistent, or to transcend biological death.
Anyway, he presents a fascinating case. I enjoyed that, Doc. Thanks.
Religion is for people whose existential fear is greater than their common sense.
Even if a god actually existed, any god concept is made up. Since it has never made itself known to mankind, we have to assume it's a product of imagination. It's a fiction created by every person talking about it.
Whenever I hear someone talking about their god, all I can think these days is, "What a damned waste of energy. You are lying to everyone, but most importantly, yourself. What are all the burdens you are carrying because you feel required to hold on to the ridiculous god belief? How much money are you wasting?"
It's also occurred to me that living a religion is not only lying on a regular basis, but also the process of getting used to living a lie. People who are well-practiced at living their religion are well-practiced at lying to themselves and others. Lying is a lifestyle for the religious. It's hilarious how many religions teach that lying is bad when the very act of living a religion requires a lifestyle of lying. Religion is a disease that causes you to hold on to ridiculous beliefs, so lying to yourself becomes second nature. It's also a disease because once you're willing to believe outrageous religious claims, you'll believe other outrageous claims (like Trump cares about you, or anything but himself).
It's obvious to me that religion is for people who can't face life on life's terms. They have to lie about the reality of things to simply cope. Religion is for people who haven't grown up yet. I'm so sick of the deference paid to idiotic religion.
Religion is for people whose existential fear is greater than their common sense.
Even if a god actually existed, any god concept is made up. Since it has never made itself known to mankind, we have to assume it's a product of imagination. It's a fiction created by every person talking about it.
Whenever I hear someone talking about their god, all I can think these days is, "What a damned waste of energy. You are lying to everyone, but most importantly, yourself. What are all the burdens you are carrying because you feel required to hold on to the ridiculous god belief? How much money are you wasting?"
It's also occurred to me that living a religion is not only lying on a regular basis, but also the process of getting used to living a lie. People who are well-practiced at living their religion are well-practiced at lying to themselves and others. Lying is a lifestyle for the religious. It's hilarious how many religions teach that lying is bad when the very act of living a religion requires a lifestyle of lying. Religion is a disease that causes you to hold on to ridiculous beliefs, so lying to yourself becomes second nature. It's also a disease because once you're willing to believe outrageous religious claims, you'll believe other outrageous claims (like Trump cares about you, or anything but himself).
It's obvious to me that religion is for people who can't face life on life's terms. They have to lie about the reality of things to simply cope. Religion is for people who haven't grown up yet. I'm so sick of the deference paid to idiotic religion.
Would you like to discuss any of the issues your raised in this or are you just needing to vent?
We only get stronger when we are lifting something that is heavier than what we are used to. ~ KF
Even if a god actually existed, any god concept is made up. Since it has never made itself known to mankind, we have to assume it's a product of imagination. It's a fiction created by every person talking about it.
Whenever I hear someone talking about their god, all I can think these days is, "What a damned waste of energy. You are lying to everyone, but most importantly, yourself. What are all the burdens you are carrying because you feel required to hold on to the ridiculous god belief? How much money are you wasting?"
It's also occurred to me that living a religion is not only lying on a regular basis, but also the process of getting used to living a lie. People who are well-practiced at living their religion are well-practiced at lying to themselves and others. Lying is a lifestyle for the religious. It's hilarious how many religions teach that lying is bad when the very act of living a religion requires a lifestyle of lying. Religion is a disease that causes you to hold on to ridiculous beliefs, so lying to yourself becomes second nature. It's also a disease because once you're willing to believe outrageous religious claims, you'll believe other outrageous claims (like Trump cares about you, or anything but himself).
It's obvious to me that religion is for people who can't face life on life's terms. They have to lie about the reality of things to simply cope. Religion is for people who haven't grown up yet. I'm so sick of the deference paid to idiotic religion.
Would you like to discuss any of the issues your raised in this or are you just needing to vent?
Holy cow!! I would.
he/him When I go to sea, don’t fear for me. Fear for the storm.
Jessica Best, Fear for the Storm. From The Strange Case of the Starship Iris.
Like I didn't already have enough other stuff to obsess over and pursue on the internet! 
