God Creation

The Off-Topic forum for anything non-LDS related, such as sports or politics. Rated PG through PG-13.
Post Reply
User avatar
Some Schmo
God
Posts: 1845
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:21 am

God Creation

Post by Some Schmo »

I've been thinking a lot about how people make up their own gods and referring to their creation as "god", a.k.a. the one everyone is talking about when they refer to "god." (Side note: isn't it interesting people will say "god" like it's an external entity everyone one is familiar with? It's like me making up a word like "smarkoff" and saying it as though everyone knows exactly what I'm talking about when in reality, they have no idea).

What's important here is the the fact that everyone makes up their own god. I know this because I remember doing it. At the time, I didn't realize I was making it up because I was doing it in response to other people telling me this entity existed, so I had to make it up in order to have something to refer to mentally whenever someone invoked the word "god."

But still, I kind of remember the process (it happened a long time ago when I was young, but I still have a sense of what happened). Someone mentioned this god thing, and I'm pretty sure that the mental image I had of a god was based on that famous Jesus painting:

Image

So I've got an image to start with, and now it's just a matter of assigning him attributes. I have to, because I've never met or seen him, so everything I think about him is based on what I think a proper god should be. Somebody would make some comment (read: assertion) about their god, and one of two things would happen: I would either think, "That sounds right" and incorporate it into my picture of god, or "That doesn't sound like something an all powerful being would do" so I discarded it. That idea didn't make my god-cut.

It was when I started analyzing my picture of god that I realized he was exactly everything I needed him to be to fit a reasonable definition of a god for me. When I realized that simple truth, I started hearing everyone else's definition of god as a simple screed of their own personal values and desires. Everybody does the exact same thing I used to do: they would either accept a proposition about god because they were ok with it, or discard it because they weren't. This tells me that the definition of anyone's god is completely malleable. It's entirely up to each individual considering the question. Why? Because nobody's actually seen a god, there's nothing we can say about a god definitively, so we can say whatever the “F” we want. To me, this is by far the best evidence that man created their own god, not the other way around.

Bottom line is, because it's so obvious to me that everyone has created their own personal god, I am entirely unimpressed with comments about what you think your god wants, or pronouncements about the morality of things based on your limited, retarded (slowed, impeded) perception of reality due to a reliance on pure fantasy and fiction.

Every single god anyone has ever heard about is a fabrication. That is a fact. It has to be, because nobody has ever credibly seen a god. So it should be vitally important to keep your damned god concept to yourself. Talking about it publicly exposes you as a damned fool.
Religion is for people whose existential fear is greater than their common sense.
User avatar
Jersey Girl
God
Posts: 5173
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:51 am
Location: In my head

Re: God Creation

Post by Jersey Girl »

At the outside chance that you didn't post the opening post just to pop off (and no judging from me if you did because I sometimes pop off myself), can you tell me what sort of Bible learning you've had in your life, how that was delivered to you and by what religious institution or was it a family thing?

Trying to get a handle on what your background is re:religious teaching. I'm curious about that and I don't think you've ever said. If you did, I missed it or have forgotten it. I'm not in it to win it here, I'm just really interested about this.
Last edited by Jersey Girl on Sun Jul 17, 2022 7:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
Slava Ukraini!
honorentheos
God
Posts: 2130
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:15 am

Re: God Creation

Post by honorentheos »

There's a right way to be exposed to reframed mythologies that, properly contextualized, makes belief in those myths superior to rejecting them due to being exposed to them through an inferior tradition that falls apart easily on examination. It's not your fault. You just weren't brought up right and then didn't put in the work to properly reframe when that inferior version inevitably fell apart. No worries, bro.
User avatar
Jersey Girl
God
Posts: 5173
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:51 am
Location: In my head

Re: God Creation

Post by Jersey Girl »

honorentheos wrote:
Sun Jul 17, 2022 6:09 am
There's a right way to be exposed to reframed mythologies that, properly contextualized, makes belief in those myths superior to rejecting them due to being exposed to them through an inferior tradition that falls apart easily on examination. It's not your fault. You just weren't brought up right and then didn't put in the work to properly reframe when that inferior version inevitably fell apart. No worries, bro.
Your above sounds eerily like the 'you never had a real testimony' that the LDS apologists like to throw in the face of ex-LDS. If I understand it correctly, I have to disagree with what you've written there. I've encountered a multitude of atheists (Ex-LDS, Catholics, and Baptists--maybe a stray Presbyterian here and there) on these types of boards in the nearly 23 years that I've been in discussions online, who were highly knowledgeable and well educated with regard to to the Bible and it's development, and in fact presented issues that I had never known about, realized, or even considered until my interactions with them. Their journey led them to disbelieve in a God or gods entirely and others who settled on an agnostic view, and it wasn't because they lacked teaching.

One man in particular (on another board) was a Southern Baptist. I recall this immediately because I was a SB at the time of our interactions. He had taken a break and returned to share the story of his journey away from religion. It was keenly interested to hear about his process. It seems to me that more often than not, the primary reason that folks left religion and grew to lack a belief in God was on account of science education or at least that was the beginning of the end for them. Not always, but that was a major theme of the exit stories I've read about online and that have been shared with me privately. Second place would probably go to the study and comparison of ancient myths.

Those were days when I was deeply interested in discussion and debate, when there were lengthy and informative discussions. Sometimes heated, actually almost all the time heated! Not so much any more as you can probably tell by my rarely digging in around here. I'm still interested in the journeys though.

with regard to to Christianity, I don't know that there's a right or proper way to learn. I've gone through so many developments myself in my journey and how I approach religion and/or the Bible, how I study the Bible, how I think about organized religion, it's crazy when I think about it. Do NOT throw that crazy line back at me.
Slava Ukraini!
Gunnar
God
Posts: 1649
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:32 pm
Location: California

Re: God Creation

Post by Gunnar »

I think most people nowadays base their belief in God or gods on some holy book or "scripture" such as The Bible. I think there is great value in learning about The Bible and/or other holy books that have influenced the world's culture -- especially the ones that predominated in one's own culture in which one was brought up. It helps us to understand how we and others got to where we are. I am convinced that The Bible contains both history and mythology, both truth and fiction, both wisdom and nonsense, and that no one in our culture can truthfully claim to be adequately or properly educated without having at least a passing acquaintance with its contents. But I no longer believe that it is any more or less the work of fallible, mortal human beings than anything else that has ever been written. It is at least as unreasonable and wrong to believe that it is the inerrant, infallible word of God and divine prophecy as it is to arbitrarily dismiss the whole thing as worthless junk. There is no denying that it has through the ages inspired billions of people for both good and ill, both hatred and compassion.

I am as convinced as Some Schmo is that it is almost infinitely more likely that Man created God (or gods) in his own image than the other way around.
No precept or claim is more suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
User avatar
Some Schmo
God
Posts: 1845
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:21 am

Re: God Creation

Post by Some Schmo »

Jersey Girl wrote:
Sun Jul 17, 2022 6:00 am
At the outside chance that you didn't post the opening post just to pop off (and no judging from me if you did because I sometimes pop off myself)
I had a couple beers last night and it is something I've been thinking about a lot lately, so I suppose I was in the mood to write it down. The vast majority of my posting at this site is just to articulate my thoughts in the moment about whatever.
Jersey Girl wrote:
Sun Jul 17, 2022 6:00 am
can you tell me what sort of Bible learning you've had in your life, how that was delivered to you and by what religious institution or was it a family thing?
I read the Bible when I was a kid. Most of the "instruction" I had on it was from LDS Seminary, but of course, my parents and members of the congregation had their own thoughts on it as well.

I don't ever remember being impressed by scripture, or a time when I actually believed it was written by a deity. It always struck me as fiction, which is probably a big part of the reason I started questioning church teachings when I was 9 or 10.
Jersey Girl wrote:
Sun Jul 17, 2022 6:00 am
Trying to get a handle on what your background is re:religious teaching. I'm curious about that and I don't think you've ever said. If you did, I missed it or have forgotten it. I'm not in it to win it here, I'm just really interested about this.
I was born into the LDS church. There was never a time when I enjoyed church activity. I dreaded Sundays, so I have little doubt I was motivated to dispute what the church had to say. Lucky for me, none of it makes much sense. If there actually was a religion that was "true" I'd be screwed, because I'd still have no part of it, unless it actually made sense and made my life better.

Also, it seems important to point out, when I started questioning Mormonism, I was questioning the idea of religion, not my church specifically. It never made any sense to me that there was one church the creator of the universe wanted us all to attend without specifically telling us which one.
Last edited by Some Schmo on Sun Jul 17, 2022 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Religion is for people whose existential fear is greater than their common sense.
User avatar
Some Schmo
God
Posts: 1845
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:21 am

Re: God Creation

Post by Some Schmo »

honorentheos wrote:
Sun Jul 17, 2022 6:09 am
There's a right way to be exposed to reframed mythologies that, properly contextualized, makes belief in those myths superior to rejecting them due to being exposed to them through an inferior tradition that falls apart easily on examination. It's not your fault. You just weren't brought up right and then didn't put in the work to properly reframe when that inferior version inevitably fell apart. No worries, bro.
This is one of the dumbest things you've ever posted. Congrats.
Religion is for people whose existential fear is greater than their common sense.
User avatar
Some Schmo
God
Posts: 1845
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:21 am

Re: God Creation

Post by Some Schmo »

Gunnar wrote:
Sun Jul 17, 2022 8:58 am
I think most people nowadays base their belief in God or gods on some holy book or "scripture" such as The Bible.
Absolutely. I am convinced that people are more likely to believe something is legitimate if it's simply written down. The Bible is a talisman to religious credibility for many people.
Gunnar wrote:
Sun Jul 17, 2022 8:58 am
I think there is great value in learning about The Bible and/or other holy books that have influenced the world's culture -- especially the ones that predominated in one's own culture in which one was brought up. It helps us to understand how we and others got to where we are.
Certainly there is great value in studying the Bible from a historical/anthropological perspective (and as Dawkins points out, just to understand certain cultural expressions).

The problem is that most people don't. They think it's letters from their god. And as you pointed out, there is wisdom contained in the Bible, which helps its divine credibility for a lot of people. It's all the crap they're ignoring to maintain the illusion of divine inspiration that drives me nuts.
Religion is for people whose existential fear is greater than their common sense.
User avatar
Some Schmo
God
Posts: 1845
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:21 am

Re: God Creation

Post by Some Schmo »

Jersey Girl wrote:
Sun Jul 17, 2022 6:55 am
I've encountered a multitude of atheists...
I don't call myself an atheist (primarily because it pays undue respect to the god idea). I simply disagree with anyone's idea about their god, unless their god is something real, like money or a star athlete. It goes like this:

Assertion: There is a god who [insert whatever you think your god is].

My reaction: I disagree.


If there's a name for that, I'd say it was contrarian on the topic of gods if I called it anything at all.
Religion is for people whose existential fear is greater than their common sense.
Vēritās
Elder
Posts: 352
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2022 2:51 am

Re: God Creation

Post by Vēritās »

Some Schmo wrote:
Sun Jul 17, 2022 1:12 pm
honorentheos wrote:
Sun Jul 17, 2022 6:09 am
There's a right way to be exposed to reframed mythologies that, properly contextualized, makes belief in those myths superior to rejecting them due to being exposed to them through an inferior tradition that falls apart easily on examination. It's not your fault. You just weren't brought up right and then didn't put in the work to properly reframe when that inferior version inevitably fell apart. No worries, bro.
This is one of the dumbest things you've ever posted. Congrats.
I'm thinking (hoping?) he was being facetious.
Post Reply