History of Music

[doubtingthomas]

DT I'm going to hang back here until the others have commented. I know I tend to dominate a topic like this (because all sorts of things pop into my head one after another) and I don't mean to. See if you can come up with some narrower questions for us? Thanks!

Your contributions are always welcomed, on all topics

[Jersey Girl]

DT I think you should ask questions. We don't know what you want to talk about if you don't.

Anyway...you might consider this an example of influence on American music culture at least. I can't prove that MJ lifted this move from Elvis, but I'm pretty sure he didn't invent it. If you look at early performances of Presley where you can see his whole body, you'll see that he used this move repeatedly. MJ actually borrowed from other dancers that predate Presley. He didn't invent the Moonwalk. He copied it.

[Jersey Girl]

Blue Moon of Kentucky...you'll hear the early heartbeats of Rock n' Roll right here.

Hillbilly (The original by Bill Monroe, Bluegrass musician)

Blue Moon of Kentucky
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtpiqdN2lJk


What Elvis did with it...

Rockabilly (2 guitars, and the slap base I mentioned earlier, no drums yet)

1954 Elvis Presley - Blue Moon Of Kentucky
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJq3AZ4uXqE


It's easy to refer back to Elvis. He had probably the most beautiful voice and face in Rock n' Roll history, and off the charts charisma. He truly was the first Rock n' Roll superstar...the King of Rock n' Roll.

[Doctor Steuss]

Is "early rock" a subgenre? When did "early rock" begin and end?

Who were the famous "early rock" musicians, how did they influence American culture, and what was their main message?

Asking because I honestly don't know anything about music.

For every genre, you'll find a subgenre, and a subgenre within that subgenre. Go hole-in-the-wall hopping for live music, and you'll also find that no genre really has an ending. And even then, within primary genres that almost everyone agrees on, you'll have wide variation (i.e. Beatles and Taylor Swift).

If you ask a new(ish) band/project what kind of music it is, you'll generally get something along the spectrum of "I don't know, it's kind of like..." or "it's a mix of..." Yet, most people who listen to it will be able to immediately pigeonhole it into a genre or subgenre.

Basically, outside of your main formulaic genres and their key components, there's often plenty of variation and prior influences to wiggle in disagreements of exact dividing lines.

In this feller's opinion, that is.

[honorentheos]

Is "early rock" a subgenre? When did "early rock" begin and end?

Who were the famous "early rock" musicians, how did they influence American culture, and what was their main message?

Asking because I honestly don't know anything about music.

For every genre, you'll find a subgenre, and a subgenre within that subgenre. Go hole-in-the-wall hopping for live music, and you'll also find that no genre really has an ending. And even then, within primary genres that almost everyone agrees on, you'll have wide variation (i.e. Beatles and Taylor Swift).

If you ask a new(ish) band/project what kind of music it is, you'll generally get something along the spectrum of "I don't know, it's kind of like..." or "it's a mix of..." Yet, most people who listen to it will be able to immediately pigeonhole it into a genre or subgenre.

Basically, outside of your main formulaic genres and their key components, there's often plenty of variation and prior influences to wiggle in disagreements of exact dividing lines.

In this feller's opinion, that is.

Well said. I tend to think of genres in the same way as I think of generations. Everyone knows what it means in concept, but the utility of the term isn't defined by exactness.

[huckelberry]

For every genre, you'll find a subgenre, and a subgenre within that subgenre. Go hole-in-the-wall hopping for live music, and you'll also find that no genre really has an ending. And even then, within primary genres that almost everyone agrees on, you'll have wide variation (i.e. Beatles and Taylor Swift).

If you ask a new(ish) band/project what kind of music it is, you'll generally get something along the spectrum of "I don't know, it's kind of like..." or "it's a mix of..." Yet, most people who listen to it will be able to immediately pigeonhole it into a genre or subgenre.

Basically, outside of your main formulaic genres and their key components, there's often plenty of variation and prior influences to wiggle in disagreements of exact dividing lines.

In this feller's opinion, that is.

Well said. I tend to think of genres in the same way as I think of generations. Everyone knows what it means in concept, but the utility of the term isn't defined by exactness.

Maybe sometimes the idea of genre is useful and sometimes it is not. Perhaps it is best as a quick reference to style and context differences that are well known. One might distinguish rock and roll from what say Eric Clapton and Cream played. It got called rock.

Then I thought of Mitch Miller and wondered if that was in a genre. I remember classifying it under yuck. I have started to enjoy Frank Sinatra . I do not know what genre he is in.

[Jersey Girl]

Then I thought of Mitch Miller and wondered if that was in a genre.I remember classifying it under yuck. He and Lawrence Welk were probably in a genre all their own.

I have started to enjoy Frank Sinatra . I do not know what genre he is in.

Hmmm....big band singer, crooner, pop singer, musicals. Some artists defy categorization, particularly those who had decades long careers and what used to be called the IT factor.

I think of those who have been mentioned here so far, Elvis and Sinatra had the IT factor.

[huckelberry]

Big Mama Thornton Hound Dog. Elvis Presley had to hear it here first. Ditto Janis Joplin for Ball and Chain.

MeDotOrg, hey thanks, that is a special referral you have made. I have long had interest in blues but have not encountered that album before. Arhoolie records seems to have more interest in documenting music than say Chess which choose and polished for radio and record sales. I think it is safe to say that the Ball and Chain recording is close to what one would hear in a Chicago club. I am pretty sure the guitarist in the video link is Buddy Guy but the image is dark , going by the music it is Buddy. I think he is at least the primary guitarist on the recording. I am not sure about the acoustic slide guitar but I would not be at all surprised it that is not Buddy as well. He is a rich guitar player. Live, I saw him once upon a time, he presents long guitar solo that is musically rich and exciting. I am not so sure about his own song skill.

Discussing genre there has been long concern about what is the most genuine blues. This item would be a bullseye. But for me I am happy that there is all sorts of music influenced by blues without being pure or most genuine. I think Elvis hound dog is a special creation. He owns his own wonderful version of the song. That does not mean earlier version is not valued but a song passes into the culture and his heard and used by most anybody with ears to hear. I have a Clapton album with a unfortunately lame version of the hound dog song.

I did not listen to all of the album so if the song Ball and Chain was there I missed it. I am sure that if there it would have had both beauty and impeccable blues credentials. I am unsure if Janis Joplin's version falls into the blues tradition. Perhaps to an extent but It is her (and Big Brother's) music and is stunning on its own. It is a piece of music I rarely wish to hear because it is brutal. Janis does not have a genre she has a hurricane.

[Gunnar]

DT here's a Wiki on Rock n' Roll! See if there is something here that can help contain this discussion. I would have looked for a wiki earlier if only I hadn't lived it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_and_roll

Good topic. There are few things I enjoy more than listening to great music. I sometimes think I would rather go blind than lose my hearing so I could no longer enjoy music. My favorite genres are what we regard as Western European influenced classical music, and traditional and modern classical jazz, but I have learned to appreciate the best of what many genres of music have to offer. I once took a class in college about Western and non-western music. It was basically a history of music and how various genres of music have influenced each other. It was one of the most enjoyable courses I ever took. The instructor agreed with the link you provided above that African and African American music was indeed very important to the origins and influence of rock and roll music. In fact, he showed that African music in general, not just African American music, has had more influence on all world's music in numerous genres than the music of practically every other continent. It is practically impossible to overestimate the impact that African music has had on all the world's music in general -- even including European classical music. I had never realized that before, but the evidence and examples he provided were very convincing. We tend to think of African Tribes as having been quite primitive according to western standards, but they managed to produce some of the most sophisticated and creative musical styles ever conceived! American jazz and rock music particularly benefited from African influence.

Another thing I learned from the class is that anthropologists have found no human societies that did not have and participate in music. Even some of the world's most primitive and backward tribes have managed to produce impressively sophisticated music. One of the earliest primitive musical inventions was the musical bow. So important has music been to humans in general, some say that it is likely that the bow was first invented as a musical instrument, and that only later did some bright fellows figure out that, "hey, we can also use this contraption to propel sharpened sticks at prey animals and enemies to kill or hurt them!"

[MeDotOrg]

kingsmen copied the Wailers (this group) version of Loui loui.

I was in a band called Sounds Unlimited in the early 60's. (Sounds Unlimited won out over The Pendletones, which was the original name of the Beach Boys). We drew a lot from the Wailers. Tall Cool One, Shanghaid and San Jose were all in our playlist.