From ‘God Creation’: side conversations …

The Off-Topic forum for anything non-LDS related, such as sports or politics. Rated PG through PG-13.
Gunnar
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Re: God Creation

Post by Gunnar »

Chap wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:22 pm
El Chapo* was imprisoned for life in 2019. The question of rehabilitating him into someone fit to operate normally in outside society does not arise.

However, for most low-grade criminals, the economic gain from not having to pay for their repeated incarcerations, and ending the social and financial harm of the crimes they commit is likely to significantly outweigh the costs of a programme that can succeed in rehabilitating a large proportion of such offenders. Petty crime is not a great life for most of the people who commit it.


*No relation. Really.
Yeah, what you said! But Hawkeye is almost certain to dismiss it out of hand, without considering it.
No precept or claim is more suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
Hawkeye
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Re: God Creation

Post by Hawkeye »

Petty crime is not a great life for most of the people who commit it.


*No relation. Really.
How much success has the EU had in rehabilitating and assimilating the Romani people in your opinion?
The best part about this is waiting four years to see how all the crazy apocalyptic predictions made by the fear mongering idiots in Right Wing media turned out to be painfully wrong...Gasoline would hit $10/gallon. Hyperinflation would ensue.
Icarus
Hawkeye
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Re: God Creation

Post by Hawkeye »

So, because it is probably impossible to rehabilitate as hardcore a criminal as El Chapo, we should never try to rehabilitate anyone at all?
I'm just not convinced that working a low or minimum wage job is that attractive to career criminals. Most of them devote 1/2 of their 2 weeks wages to their street pharmacy business.
The best part about this is waiting four years to see how all the crazy apocalyptic predictions made by the fear mongering idiots in Right Wing media turned out to be painfully wrong...Gasoline would hit $10/gallon. Hyperinflation would ensue.
Icarus
Gunnar
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Re: God Creation

Post by Gunnar »

Hawkeye wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:44 pm
Petty crime is not a great life for most of the people who commit it.


*No relation. Really.
How much success has the EU had in rehabilitating and assimilating the Romani people in your opinion?
Irrelevant. Just another example of your tendency towards bigotry. Even if the Romani people are as resistant to rehabilitation as you seem to think, there are still millions of people who can be and have been rehabilitated. Please see what I posted above about the Norwegian justice and penal system. It is at least the second time I have posted that on this forum.
No precept or claim is more suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
Gunnar
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Re: God Creation

Post by Gunnar »

Hawkeye wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:48 pm
So, because it is probably impossible to rehabilitate as hardcore a criminal as El Chapo, we should never try to rehabilitate anyone at all?
I'm just not convinced that working a low or minimum wage job is that attractive to career criminals. Most of them devote 1/2 of their 2 weeks wages to their street pharmacy business.
Yes, most of us have noted that it seems impossible to convince you of anything that conflicts with what you have already made up your mind about, regardless of how abundant or incontrovertible the contrary evidence, which you stubbornly refuse to even look at.
No precept or claim is more suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
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canpakes
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Re: God Creation

Post by canpakes »

Hawkeye wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:44 pm
How much success has the EU had in rehabilitating and assimilating the Romani people in your opinion?

ajax, it would also appear that neither the Romani nor El Chapo have been convinced by any religion or threat of eternal damnation and hellfire to meet whatever standard of behavior you prefer. So I’m not sure what your argument is, at this point.

Your statements don’t support the idea that morals or ethics must come from a God, and cannot be developed outside of a God.

Hawkeye wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:48 pm
I'm just not convinced that working a low or minimum wage job is that attractive to career criminals. Most of them devote 1/2 of their 2 weeks wages to their street pharmacy business.

I doubt that few, if any, addicts began their abuse of drugs on the premise that they’d never have to work again if they can just get to a point of addiction where they can be strung out all day long, feel continually stressed, have their skin become covered in lesions and watch their teeth fall out. Seems like an odd strategy to avoid work. You might consider reordering how you think this process plays out.
Hawkeye
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Re: God Creation

Post by Hawkeye »

Well, one thing for sure is that more welfare dollars are needed. What part of your atheist morality could you share with us that might help motivate the posters on this board to either go back to work or take on some extra shifts to help provide these welfare dollars to the federal government for those who need it?
The best part about this is waiting four years to see how all the crazy apocalyptic predictions made by the fear mongering idiots in Right Wing media turned out to be painfully wrong...Gasoline would hit $10/gallon. Hyperinflation would ensue.
Icarus
Chap
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Re: God Creation

Post by Chap »

Hawkeye wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:44 pm
Petty crime is not a great life for most of the people who commit it.


*No relation. Really.
How much success has the EU had in rehabilitating and assimilating the Romani people in your opinion?
I have no opinion on this question. My home country is not in the EU, and in any case I decline to be involved in your attempt at distraction.

Maybe we could get back to the question of how we can diminish the costs of mass incarceration and repeated offending in the great majority of the criminal population?

Did you see Gunnar's post, the one that provides solid evidence about a system that is successful in producing a low rate of re-offending, and concludes:
Gunnar wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:35 pm
By far the strongest reason to study the Norwegian system and learn from it is the much lower recidivism rate compared the USA rate, that I highlighted in the above quote. Unfortunately, however, there are powerful corporate prison supporters who make literally billions of dollars from incarcerating as many people as possible for as long as possible. Rehabilitation is one of the lowest priorities for them.
Do you think your country could save money and reduce crime by trying similar policies? If not, why not?
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Mayan Elephant:
Not only have I denounced the Big Lie, I have denounced the Big lie big lie.
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: God Creation

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Gunnar wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 7:20 am
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Wed Aug 03, 2022 11:22 pm
That’s, ah, only partially true, friend. I think not acknowledging the HUGE benefits and entitlements that exist within the SSA makes it seem like ‘leftists’ are lying about the matter. There’s a lot the SSA could do to keep cheats, lazies, and other grey area users out of the system.

- Doc
I don't deny there are cheats and criminals who take unfair advantage of the system and that more needs to be done to prevent that and root out ineligible beneficiaries of the system, but I think my point remains that the eligible beneficiaries are only getting their own money back, not a government dole or undeserved freebies and that it would be foolish of them to refuse it.
Hrm. That makes it seem like there’s a dollars-in matching dollars-out sort of exchange. I haven’t done much looking around regarding $’s paid out versus $’s taken in, but I’m fairly certain there’s a significant difference. I’ll have to devote some minutes to the question.

- Doc
1. Speech is aggression.
2. Every utterance has a winner or a loser.
3. Curiosity is feigned.
4. Lying is performative.
5. Stupidity is power.
Hawkeye
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Re: God Creation

Post by Hawkeye »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 7:34 pm
Gunnar wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 7:20 am

I don't deny there are cheats and criminals who take unfair advantage of the system and that more needs to be done to prevent that and root out ineligible beneficiaries of the system, but I think my point remains that the eligible beneficiaries are only getting their own money back, not a government dole or undeserved freebies and that it would be foolish of them to refuse it.
Hrm. That makes it seem like there’s a dollars-in matching dollars-out sort of exchange. I haven’t done much looking around regarding $’s paid out versus $’s taken in, but I’m fairly certain there’s a significant difference. I’ll have to devote some minutes to the question.

- Doc
Yeah, the 14 million people on Disability are only getting back what they paid into social security including the parents of the 7 yoa girl who wanted me to fill out the necessary paperwork to help them pull a monthly check for her daughter being only 20/25 in her left eye without correction.
The best part about this is waiting four years to see how all the crazy apocalyptic predictions made by the fear mongering idiots in Right Wing media turned out to be painfully wrong...Gasoline would hit $10/gallon. Hyperinflation would ensue.
Icarus
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