Alt-Right Style of Arguing* (name change)

The Off-Topic forum for anything non-LDS related, such as sports or politics. Rated PG through PG-13.
Binger
God
Posts: 6133
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:34 am
Location: That's the difference. I actually have a Blue Heeler

Re: Best ajax explanation I've heard so far

Post by Binger »

Some Schmo wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:34 pm
MeDotOrg wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:14 pm
I think it is really counterproductive to call someone stupid. IF this country is to have a chance of working, I think establishing a dialogue with people who disagree with you is essential.

And to that end, I applaud Ajax for at least coming forward and stating his opinions when he knows there's a good chance he is going to be mocked or ridiculed.

I start with a simple premise: What is good for the goose is good for the gander. Laws and principles should apply equally, with no expectation of political favor. Ajax sees that in American history, this is the first time an Ex-President's residence has been served with a Search Warrant. Does that mean it was executed for the purpose of bringing down the GOP's front-runner for 2024? He thinks so.

There have been other oppositional voices on the board that have just been angry and cruel. That's not my experience of Ajax. But a BBS without disagreement is like an AA meeting where everyone has been sober for 20 years. It's boring.

There is also a group dynamic (of which I have been guilty) of not wanting to be the nail that sticks out. Have you ever avoided thinking about areas of your political view with which you are not entirely comfortable because you fear the judgement of the group? Those are the types of questions that someone who perceives themselves outside the group can ask more easily.

In short, opposition helps keeps you honest, and keeps things stimulating.
I agree with all of this, but I think we're talking about different people. Also, I think ajax may have fooled you in the same way I was fooled for years. Yes, he often gives the appearance of being reasonable... until you unpack everything he says, and take note of the flow of any conversation had with him.

I don't hate ajax; I don't really know him, and I think that's intentional on his part. It's obviously more accurate to say "what he writes is stupid" than "ajax is stupid" because I don't really know if the real ajax is stupid. My judgment is based on what he writes. Maybe he sucks as a writer. Maybe he's this brilliant dude who's been stringing everyone along for years. There have been plenty of times I've agreed with the spirit of what he's said, which is why he avoided my ignore list for so long. I do, however, hate the way he "discusses" things, and eventually, I had to give up on the hope for ajax in favor of the reality of ajax's posts.

There's a huge difference between attempting to come together with people who want consensus and those who simply don't. And that is why I'm pessimistic about this country (and the world at large) ever "working." When I say someone said something stupid, I'm being descriptive, not prescriptive.
So, you are on the higher plane and you are smarter than everyone else. Correct?
User avatar
Some Schmo
God
Posts: 2468
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:21 am

Re: Best ajax explanation I've heard so far

Post by Some Schmo »

I suppose I feel the need to point out that I'm not against debate or discussion. I guess what I'm saying is that with limited resources (time, devoted thought) that you should choose your opportunity costs wisely.

And hey, if you find it useful to engage bad faith arguers, I won't stand in your way. I will say, however, that their rhetorical strategies only work if you engage them. You may think you're winning an argument (and you likely are from a logic and reality standpoint) but the kinds of people this thread is addressing are the kinds of people who aren't looking for that kind of a win in a debate. And there's a part of me that thinks by entertaining them, you may be doing as much harm as good.
Religion is for people whose existential fear is greater than their common sense.

The god idea is popular with desperate people.
User avatar
canpakes
God
Posts: 7062
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:25 am

Re: Best ajax explanation I've heard so far

Post by canpakes »

Binger wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:38 pm
So, you are on the higher plane and you are smarter than everyone else. Correct?
Is this a presupposition, or just conspiratorial thinking on your part?
User avatar
Some Schmo
God
Posts: 2468
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:21 am

Re: Best ajax explanation I've heard so far

Post by Some Schmo »

canpakes wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:20 pm
Binger wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:38 pm
So, you are on the higher plane and you are smarter than everyone else. Correct?
Is this a presupposition, or just conspiratorial thinking on your part?
I might not like you if you didn't make me laugh so often.
Religion is for people whose existential fear is greater than their common sense.

The god idea is popular with desperate people.
User avatar
canpakes
God
Posts: 7062
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:25 am

Re: Best ajax explanation I've heard so far

Post by canpakes »

Some Schmo wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:34 pm
I might not like you if you didn't make me laugh so often.

Well, Jersey Girl already told me that nobody likes me. You can’t go changing things now. : D
Binger
God
Posts: 6133
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:34 am
Location: That's the difference. I actually have a Blue Heeler

Re: Best ajax explanation I've heard so far

Post by Binger »

canpakes wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:20 pm
Binger wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:38 pm
So, you are on the higher plane and you are smarter than everyone else. Correct?
Is this a presupposition, or just conspiratorial thinking on your part?
I rephrased what Schmo said. It is a clarification.
User avatar
Some Schmo
God
Posts: 2468
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:21 am

Re: Best ajax explanation I've heard so far

Post by Some Schmo »

canpakes wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:47 pm
Well, Jersey Girl already told me that nobody likes me. You can’t go changing things now. : D
Oh right... the script.

Sorry to waver. I'll now take a vow of hatred. Just... ya gotta meet me halfway and quit making me laugh.
Religion is for people whose existential fear is greater than their common sense.

The god idea is popular with desperate people.
User avatar
Doctor CamNC4Me
God
Posts: 8980
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:04 am

Re: Best ajax explanation I've heard so far

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Some Schmo wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:34 pm
Manetho's link about the alt-right led me down another YouTube rabbit hole. There are some really great videos in "The Alt-Right Playbook" series but this one called "The Card Says Moops" seems to really nail why most people who defend right-wing talking points seem like liars to me.

People like ajax don't really believe their crap; they're just throwing it at the wall to try to win arguments (winning the argument to them is getting the other person to stop talking). One of the most salient points the video makes is that you never know the true beliefs of these types of people, because if they actually told you, it would restrict their freedom to argue whatever they need to in the future to win a different argument (well, convince themselves they won, anyway). Of course, it's not really them winning the argument; it's the other person realizing they're arguing with someone who can't argue in good faith. Why argue with someone who's clearly just arguing for argument's sake? They aren't trying to win; they're trying to irritate people away from them in order to give them the illusion they won.

My main takeaway from this is that I was dumb to argue with him and got smarter the moment I stopped. His lack of sincerity and consistency was a dead giveaway that he doesn't mean what he says. Ignoring this type of interlocuter is the only solution. I don't mind letting them think they beat me. It's a small price to pay to not have to listen to damned nonsense. It's like loaning someone $20, knowing they'll never pay you back, because you never want to see them again. They gained $20, and you gained never having to hear from them again. What a bargain!
You could swap Ajax’s username out with any number of Cons here and get this:
BigStupidIdiotTrumplican wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:11 pm
Anyone can come on here and believe that Garland just ambushed Trump and caught him red-handed in the cookie jar committing Atomic Espionage Treason in violation of the one thing or the one other thing. But uh, bummer about common sense getting in the way of that. You better tighten things down around here and make sure that Atomic Espionage Treason at MAL is the final link. We don't want another repeat of the Russia hoax, and the mask hoax and the vaccine hoax and hell, lets' just call it a vote by mail hoax too. Make sure to get the Atomic Espionage Treason conspiracy all factchecked so we don't' end up in a pretzel again.
Seriously. Without using the search feature can you tell who this is? They’re extensions of screwed“News”, Breinfart, mOANN, and other whackadoodle right-wing propagandists. They are simply avatars for the liars, hypocrites, and woefully inadequate politicians that mostly compose the GQP these days.

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
User avatar
canpakes
God
Posts: 7062
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:25 am

Re: Best ajax explanation I've heard so far

Post by canpakes »

Binger wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:55 pm
canpakes wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:20 pm


Is this a presupposition, or just conspiratorial thinking on your part?
I rephrased what Schmo said. It is a clarification.
I see. You’re just lying, this time.

Got it. : D
User avatar
Some Schmo
God
Posts: 2468
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:21 am

Re: Best ajax explanation I've heard so far

Post by Some Schmo »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:08 pm
You could swap Ajax’s username out with any number of Cons here and get this:
BigStupidIdiotTrumplican wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:11 pm
Anyone can come on here and believe that Garland just ambushed Trump and caught him red-handed in the cookie jar committing Atomic Espionage Treason in violation of the one thing or the one other thing. But uh, bummer about common sense getting in the way of that. You better tighten things down around here and make sure that Atomic Espionage Treason at MAL is the final link. We don't want another repeat of the Russia hoax, and the mask hoax and the vaccine hoax and hell, lets' just call it a vote by mail hoax too. Make sure to get the Atomic Espionage Treason conspiracy all factchecked so we don't' end up in a pretzel again.
Seriously. Without using the search feature can you tell who this is? They’re extensions of screwed“News”, Breinfart, mOANN, and other whackadoodle right-wing propagandists. They are simply avatars for the liars, hypocrites, and woefully inadequate politicians that mostly compose the GQP these days.

- Doc
Yeah, I kind of regret the ambiguity in the thread title now, because what I meant was "Best explanation I've heard so far for ajax's style of arguing."
Religion is for people whose existential fear is greater than their common sense.

The god idea is popular with desperate people.
Post Reply