Can a case be made for record producers?

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Gadianton
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Can a case be made for record producers?

Post by Gadianton »

I don't know much about the music industry, so I may be getting ahead of myself, but here's a thought. Do record labels stand in relation to music listeners in a similar representative fashion as elected representatives in a Republic?

If so, then the victory of social media over record labels (at least to a degree?) is an allegory to the victories of populism and "general will of the people" democracies over Republics.

My understanding of the idea of a Republic is a representative is supposed to be more of a character call by voters, not someone who is fired up to achieve every last whim of his or her supporters. You vote for someone who is like a parent, not a hired gun. In a similar way, a record producer, for whatever evil they've wrought, is somewhat of a negotiator between raw public taste and musical accomplishment.

When Binger makes many of the points he does, the message I get, and I could be wrong and I am open to correction, is that the general will of the people is the ultimate authority on governance. And if that is true, then is that also true for music?

Rick Beatos is a former producer and music landscape YouTuber who I watch sometimes. He is no longer a producer and has no skin in the game to my knowledge, and he has not made the point I'm making, to my knowledge. He has a series where he reviews the top 10 songs on all the big social media outlets, and the result is that 80% of it is garbage. It's mostly very basic dance beats with a lot of voice auto-tune, and basic hooks.

If judging by what the people have spoken for, averaged across the entire planet with social media access, then all the works of Steely Dan added together amount to nothing in comparison to the song "Baby Shark". There is nothing Steely Dan could ever likely do to produce music at this level, judging by the criteria of populism.

There are good things about the new arrangements, the level of musicianship and access to learning, and also niche markets that many talented musicians might secure that otherwise never would have existed like this. I don't want to take the comparison to far, mainly that the average taste or understanding of ideas that people have across a large population will leave a big question mark in terms of coherency and quality.
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Some Schmo
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Re: Can a case be made for record producers?

Post by Some Schmo »

Gadianton wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:28 am
...the general will of the people is the ultimate authority on governance.
The primary problem with that premise is that our representatives don't acknowledge the "general will of the people" (assuming it means "what is statistically popular"). What they tend to emulate are the vocal (or moneyed) minorities that support their campaigns.

I think your producer analogy doesn't really work because they represent a tiny fraction of the whole. The interests they have to work for are far more limited based on having fewer people they need to represent. If you're making the argument that record producers are like current political representatives, I'd buy it, because they really do only represent a tiny fraction of their possible constituency.
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honorentheos
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Re: Can a case be made for record producers?

Post by honorentheos »

Interesting thought experiment. I'd offer that behind both producers and political representation is the economic issue of division of labor. Complex societies require someone have the job to focus full time on understanding issues in order to effectively legislate. And music industry professionals supposedly listen to all the demo tapes and check out the local music scenes to filter out meh to find the talented. There's simply no way a modern nation state could be a successful direct democracy. And if we all had to search SoundCloud to find new music most of us will never find the real talent on our own in the infinite mediocre output. That's a future of Boaty McBoatfaces and autotuned mumblecore made-for-TikTik clips.

But your example shows the tension between expertise and gatekeeping that exists. Lawmakers spend inordinate amounts of time trying to get reelected. The biggest payoffs don't come from navigating complex issues to find compromise solutions that might leave everyone better off in aggregate but mean no one came away the clear winner. And people like backing winners. Likewise, music producers are human with subjective tastes that tend to lag behind innovations. Like movie producers reheating old properties, an artist is likely to find their vision challenged in the name of producing a hit.

Populism as Culty advocates for it is SoundCloud and YouTube comment sections taking over the world. But that obscures the need for challenging systemic inertia when the producers aren't providing opportunities for innovation or elected officials don't actually spend more time being educated on issues and engaging in governing rather than electioneering. Anarchist narcissists bomb throwers don't have answers even when they intuit a problem exists. Claiming there's a problem is easy. Genuine problem solving is hard. Like legislating and creating innovative new music.
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Re: Can a case be made for record producers?

Post by honorentheos »

To add to the above, I first heard that description of representative government from a poli-sci professor. While it seemed reasonable to me it didn't really sink in immediately. It was some time later that I came to see the implications behind it that included realizing politicians that I think represent me ought to vote in ways I may not initially agree with if they are doing their job. Voters are the ultimate victims of Dunning-Kruger. Followed closely by hipsters.
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Some Schmo
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Re: Can a case be made for record producers?

Post by Some Schmo »

So, I was thinking about this and realized I didn't really answer your question.

In a sense, I think you're right in that a record producer, or even a talent agent, represents the interests of their clients without necessarily doing exactly everything the represented parties want. Their job is to know more about that aspect of their careers and do the best they can on their behalf with the assumption that on certain topics, they know better than the artist.

So if that's what you were going for, yeah, I guess I agree.
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