DiscussMormonism.com

https://nypost.com/2022/08/31/john-fett ... americans/

In a nutshell - black Americans are getting tired of the condescending racist suggestion that they can't get an ID.

According to the NY Post article you linked, John Fetterman says that he's against voter ID laws because he thinks the poor and people of color are less likely to be carrying their IDs with them at any given time.

Adam Coleman translates this as Fetterman saying that Black people are incapable of getting photo identification. How is that not a mischaracterization of what Fetterman actually said?

After misrepresenting Fetterman, Coleman launches into his diatribe and disingenuously insinuates that Fetterman is being condescending for saying something that he, Fetterman, didn't actually say.

And apparently, you agree with Coleman.

Morley wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 03, 2022 1:36 am

According to the NY Post article you linked, John Fetterman says that he's against voter ID laws because he thinks the poor and people of color are less likely to be carrying their IDs with them at any given time.

Adam Coleman translates this as Fetterman saying that Black people are incapable of getting photo identification. How is that not a mischaracterization of what Fetterman actually said?

After misrepresenting Fetterman, Coleman launches into his diatribe and disingenuously insinuates that Fetterman is being condescending for an argument that he, Fetterman, didn't make.

Apparently you agree with Coleman.

I also can’t find the data showing that “black Americans” are.. well … anything. So far, we’ve got one black American. I expected some kind of poll saying “Hey, white liberals, we’re totally cool with voter ID requirements, so find yourselves another issue.”

Morley wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 03, 2022 1:36 am

According to the NY Post article you linked, John Fetterman says that he's against voter ID laws because he thinks the poor and people of color are less likely to be carrying their IDs with them at any given time.

Adam Coleman translates this as Fetterman saying that Black people are incapable of getting photo identification. How is that not a mischaracterization of what Fetterman actually said?

After misrepresenting Fetterman, Coleman launches into his diatribe and disingenuously insinuates that Fetterman is being condescending for saying something that he, Fetterman, didn't actually say.

And apparently, you agree with Coleman.

I disagree with this take on the article and on Coleman. Coleman provides links that give enough background to what Fetterman said. The condescension is clear in the "carry ID" suggestion and Adam addresses it succinctly.

Thanks for reading the article and commenting.

Res Ipsa wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 03, 2022 1:43 am

Morley wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 03, 2022 1:36 am

According to the NY Post article you linked, John Fetterman says that he's against voter ID laws because he thinks the poor and people of color are less likely to be carrying their IDs with them at any given time.

Adam Coleman translates this as Fetterman saying that Black people are incapable of getting photo identification. How is that not a mischaracterization of what Fetterman actually said?

After misrepresenting Fetterman, Coleman launches into his diatribe and disingenuously insinuates that Fetterman is being condescending for an argument that he, Fetterman, didn't make.

Apparently you agree with Coleman.

I also can’t find the data showing that “black Americans” are.. well … anything. So far, we’ve got one black American. I expected some kind of poll saying “Hey, white liberals, we’re totally cool with voter ID requirements, so find yourselves another issue.”

The poll was part of the same data set that showed that blacks are less likely to carry an ID. Scroll down a bit. Did you miss that data? Try reading it again, there were a few links.

Obviously, Coleman's point was solid.

Binger wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 03, 2022 2:21 pm

Morley wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 03, 2022 1:36 am

According to the NY Post article you linked, John Fetterman says that he's against voter ID laws because he thinks the poor and people of color are less likely to be carrying their IDs with them at any given time.

Adam Coleman translates this as Fetterman saying that Black people are incapable of getting photo identification. How is that not a mischaracterization of what Fetterman actually said?

After misrepresenting Fetterman, Coleman launches into his diatribe and disingenuously insinuates that Fetterman is being condescending for saying something that he, Fetterman, didn't actually say.

And apparently, you agree with Coleman.

I disagree with this take on the article and on Coleman. Coleman provides links that give enough background to what Fetterman said. The condescension is clear in the "carry ID" suggestion and Adam addresses it succinctly.

Thanks for reading the article and commenting.

I did follow the links, but couldn't find anything to support Coleman's premise. For example, following Coleman's link to Fetterman's racially "condescending narrative," in about the eighth paragraph, leads to a story about (among other things) Fetterman's health. There's nothing there about race, voter IDs, or condescension.

Maybe you can show me what I missed. Did you follow the links yourself?

Res Ipsa wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 03, 2022 1:43 am

I also can’t find the data showing that “black Americans” are.. well … anything. So far, we’ve got one black American. I expected some kind of poll saying “Hey, white liberals, we’re totally cool with voter ID requirements, so find yourselves another issue.”

Binger wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 03, 2022 2:23 pm

The poll was part of the same data set that showed that blacks are less likely to carry an ID. Scroll down a bit. Did you miss that data? Try reading it again, there were a few links.

I couldn't find this one, either. Perhaps you'll link to and quote the piece that says it?

Morley wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 03, 2022 5:40 pm

Binger wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 03, 2022 2:21 pm

I disagree with this take on the article and on Coleman. Coleman provides links that give enough background to what Fetterman said. The condescension is clear in the "carry ID" suggestion and Adam addresses it succinctly.

Thanks for reading the article and commenting.

I did follow the links, but couldn't find anything to support Coleman's premise. For example, following Coleman's link to Fetterman's racially "condescending narrative," in about the eighth paragraph, leads to a story about (among other things) Fetterman's health. There's nothing there about race, voter IDs, or condescension.

Maybe you can show me what I missed. Did you follow the links yourself?

I’ve generally viewed voter ID as a poverty problem. However, because of the correlation between poverty and race, it has a disparate racial impact. There’s some pretty good evidence that voter ID requirements decrease turnout by around 2%. There’s also evidence that black folks are less likely to have photo id than whites folks, but it’s not clear why that is.

I did a little research because I was curious. In a couple of polls that I looked at about voting access, the majority of black folks supported requiring voter ID, together with things like early voting that make it easier to vote. The support was lower than that of whites folks, but both were still solid majorities.

It’s undoubtedly true that getting a photo ID is more of a burden for those with limited financial resources. Besides The ID itself, there is the cost of getting the documents one needs to get a photo ID — usually a certified birth certificate. There is also the cost of time and travel to get the ID. In rural areas, that can mean a long trip. At a bare minimum, the state should make whatever ID it chooses to require free. Otherwise, we’re in poll tax territory. No one should be prevented from voting by a financial cost requirement. With the technology we have today, there is no reason why voter registration, including a free photo ID shouldn’t be accessible to every American.

But I also read a fascinating law review article about voter suppression that examined what sociology research tells us about people who don’t vote. And that research in general says that lack of ID isn’t among the most significant factors common to non-voters. I won’t go into the gory details, but they aren’t the type of issues that can be addressed by the legal system.

But the thing I found most interesting is what the article labeled “soft suppression.” Today’s political campaigns are based on micro targeting subsections of the American public. And, with the recent emphasis on “base elections,” the targets are mainly those who are most likely to vote for the party’s candidate. There’s research that shows that personal contact with a potential voter increases the odds that the potential voter will actually vote.

In a base election, the campaigns don’t spend time and resources on people without a track record of voting. So, the way candidates campaign makes the factors that lead people not to vote worse. For a guy who’s used to thinking about voting issues from a legal perspective, it was very helpful to see the issue through a completely different lens.

But context is everything. And the truth is that turnout of black folks in elections decides elections in many places. Relief Society know that, and there’s a long history of techniques that have been used to discourage black folks from voting. They go back to the reconstruction era and have never gone away. (And they are in no way limited to the south.) I’m talking things like fewer and broken voting machines in poor, black precincts as compared to wealthy white ones. Or robo calls to households in black neighborhoods announcing that the election has been rescheduled for a later day. Or gerrymandering intended to reduce the impact of black folks’ votes.

The notion of winning elections by taking steps to make it harder to vote should be anathema to Americans. If you want to win elections, tell us why you would be a better president or Governor or Senator — don’t make people you don’t think will vote for you stand for hours in the hot sun and then arrest anyone who tries to give those folks water. That kind of crap is embarrassing in a nation that claims it is exceptional.

So, I’m not opposed to voter ID as long as it is free and accessible, and as long as it’s not done as a cynical tactic to suppress voting.

I am opposed to the cynical parading of a cherry-picked “black person who agrees with me” and claiming they represent black people or some kind of trend. That’s tokenism — it’s degrading and racist as hell. Of course black folks don’t have identical opinions. Why would anyone think they would? Classism is a thing, too. And the author of the piece cited in the OP doesn’t seem to appreciate the uneven burden on voting imposed on the poor.

Morley wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 03, 2022 6:00 pm

Res Ipsa wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 03, 2022 1:43 am

I also can’t find the data showing that “black Americans” are.. well … anything. So far, we’ve got one black American. I expected some kind of poll saying “Hey, white liberals, we’re totally cool with voter ID requirements, so find yourselves another issue.”

Binger wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 03, 2022 2:23 pm

The poll was part of the same data set that showed that blacks are less likely to carry an ID. Scroll down a bit. Did you miss that data? Try reading it again, there were a few links.

I couldn't find this one, either. Perhaps you'll link to and quote the piece that says it?

Binger’s description matches what I looked at last night. My recollection is that black folks are less likely to have photo ID and to carry photo ID.

Binger wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 03, 2022 2:23 pm

Res Ipsa wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 03, 2022 1:43 am

I also can’t find the data showing that “black Americans” are.. well … anything. So far, we’ve got one black American. I expected some kind of poll saying “Hey, white liberals, we’re totally cool with voter ID requirements, so find yourselves another issue.”

The poll was part of the same data set that showed that blacks are less likely to carry an ID. Scroll down a bit. Did you miss that data? Try reading it again, there were a few links.

Obviously, Coleman's point was solid.

It’s a phony straw man. No one concerned about access to voting thinks the problem is black people are stupid. In fact, the crowd that thinks black people are intrinsically stupid are concentrated in the right half of the political spectrum.