Would you call this waging war on seniors?

[Hawkeye]

So no, I don't have proof if the people who often come in asking me to fill out disability paperwork for kids with dry eye, or lazy eyes actually got approved but it wouldn't surprise me if they did if the standard is anything that prevents them from progressing in school. Where does the money come from for the $700/month checks these kids pull each month come from? I would guess that it's even more now since this article was written 8 years ago .

As I got further into this story, I started hearing about another group of people on disability: kids. People in Hale County told me that what you want is a kid who can "pull a check." Many people mentioned this, but I basically ignored it. It seemed like one of those things that maybe happened once or twice, got written up in the paper and became conversational fact among neighbors.

Then I looked at the numbers. I found that the number of kids on a program called Supplemental Security Income -- a program for children and adults who are both poor and disabled -- is almost seven times larger than it was 30 years ago.



Graph: Children on Disability (1974-2011)
Source: Social Security Administration
Credit: Lam Thuy Vo / NPR
Note: To see the number of disabled children on disability as a percentage of children eligible for the benefits, go here.
Jahleel Duroc (pictured above) is gap-toothed, 10 and vibrating with enthusiasm. He's excited to talk to someone new, excited to show me his map of his neighborhood in the Bronx. He's disabled in the eyes of the government because he has a learning disability.

"I like school," he told me. "My favorite periods are math and science and art, and lunch and recess and snack … social studies and writing are my favorite."

His favorite thing about school, in other words, is everything.

When you are an adult applying for disability you have to prove you cannot function in a "work-like setting." When you are a kid, a disability can be anything that prevents you from progressing in school. Two-thirds of all kids on the program today have been diagnosed with mental or intellectual problems.

Jahleel is a kid you can imagine doing very well for himself. He is delayed. But given the right circumstances and support, it's easy to believe that over the course of his schooling Jahleel could catch up.

Let's imagine that happens. Jahleel starts doing better in school, overcomes some of his disabilities. He doesn't need the disability program anymore. That would seem to be great for everyone, except for one thing: It would threaten his family's livelihood. Jahleel's family primarily survives off the monthly $700 check they get for his disability.[5]

Jahleel's mom wants him to do well in school. That is absolutely clear. But her livelihood depends on Jahleel struggling in school. This tension only increases as kids get older. One mother told me her teenage son wanted to work, but she didn't want him to get a job because if he did, the family would lose its disability check.

I haven't taken a survey or anything, but I'm guessing a large majority of Americans would be in favor of some form of government support for disabled children living in poverty. We would have a hard time agreeing on exactly how we want to offer support, but I think there are some basic things we'd all agree on.

Kids should be encouraged to go to school. Kids should want to do well in school. Parents should want their kids to do well in school. Kids should be confident their parents can provide for them regardless of how they do in school. Kids should become more and more independent as they grow older and hopefully be able to support themselves at around age 18.

The disability program stands in opposition to every one of these aims.

https://apps.npr.org/unfit-for-work/

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

No, I know very well that this family was pulling a $750/month check for a lazy eye

Prove it.

- Doc

Still waiting on Ajax to prove his assertion.

- Doc

[Morley]

Even if the case of lazy eye resulted in complete blindness in one eye, there'd be no disability awarded. You can't possibly be that ignorant. You're not even trying for a good faith discussion.

No, I know very well that this family was pulling a $750/month check for a lazy eye in an 8 year old in Louisiana. The argument was the increased costs of rides to the doctor and treatments. My question was whether this was coming out of some SSI tax you were speaking of or was it coming from FICA tax?

It wasn't coming from either "some SSI tax" or FICA. Blindness in one eye doesn't meet requirements for government disability. If they were "pulling a $750/month check," they weren't pulling it from Uncle Sam.

Please share with us how you "know very well that this family was pulling a $750/month check for a lazy eye in an 8 year old in Louisiana."

[Morley]

So no, I don't have proof if the people who often come in asking me to fill out disability paperwork for kids with dry eye, or lazy eyes actually got approved but it wouldn't surprise me if they did if the standard is anything that prevents them from progressing in school. Where does the money come from for the $700/month checks these kids pull each month come from?

So, something that you declare that you "know very well" turns out to be pure BS.


edit: To be clear here: Now you're asking where the money for your made up disability in your made-up scenario comes from.

[Morley]

So no, I don't have proof if the people who often come in asking me to fill out disability paperwork for kids with dry eye, or lazy eyes actually got approved but it wouldn't surprise me if they did if the standard is anything that prevents them from progressing in school. Where does the money come from for the $700/month checks these kids pull each month come from? I would guess that it's even more now since this article was written 8 years ago .

Ajax. To review:

The parent of a kid with lazy eye comes in and asks you to fill out some paperwork for a disability. You imagine that they got the disability award. You assign a dollar amount to what you imagine they're getting. Then you manufacture an indignant, self-righteous outrage at your own imagined scenario, to the point that you then go on a message board to complain about it and pass it all off as fact.

[Res Ipsa]

For clarification: there are two Social Security Trust funds. One is called the OASI Trust Fund. OASI=Old Age and Survivors Insurance. That is the fund that pays out retirement benefits. The other is DI Trust Fund. DI=Disability Insurance. The Fund Trustees file a publicly available report every year on the status of the trusts.https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/TR/2022/

The current payroll tax rate for OASI is 5.015%. The rate for SI is 1.185%.https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/statcom ... oasdi.html

In each annual report, the trustees look at the next 75 years to evaluate whether either fund will reach a point where it cannot continue to pay 100% benefits in perpetuity. As of June, 2022, the OASI trust fund is sufficient to pay 100% benefits through 2034, after which it would be able to pay only 80%. The DI Trust Fund can pay 100% benefits through the next 75 years. https://www.ssa.gov/policy/trust-funds-summary.pdf

The absolute number of Americans receiving SSDI peaked in about 2014 and has declined since. About 4% of insured workers receive SSDI benefits. Between 2010 and 2030, the number of annual applications for SSDI benefits fell by 1/3. For the same period, the number of benefit awards granted fell by about 40%.

Generally speaking, a worker is eligible to receive SSDI if they have worked for a least 1/4 of their adult life and five of the last 10 years. There is also a five month waiting period. Of all applications submitted in 2014-16, 30% were denied for technical reasons (did not meet the prior work requirements), 36% were denied for medical reasons (didn't meet criteria for disabled), and 34% were granted.

75% of SSDI benefit are over age 50. 35% are 60 or older. The death rates for people receiving SSDI range from 3X to 6X higher when compared with those in the same age group who do not receive benefits.

Receipt of SSDI is highest among older workers with low education. The states with the highest rates of recipients are West Virginia, Kentucky, and Alabama. Those with the lowest are California, Nevada, Utah, Wyoming, Colorado, North Dakota and Alaska.

The average SSDI beneficiary receives a little over $1200 per month. 90% receive less than $2000 per month. (figures from 2019)

https://www.cbpp.org/research/social-se ... nsurance-0

If workers over 65 are made exempt from social security taxes, the greatest impact will be on the OASI trust fund, which includes retirement benefits. Without some change to benefits or income, that fund will be unable to pay 100% of benefits beginning in 2035. Reducing that fund's income will move that date backward in time even more. Again, reducing the trust income without a corresponding increase in income by some other means will result in an earlier reduction of benefits to seniors. What Johnson proposes is a disingenuous proposal to "help" seniors that necessarily results in making them worse off financially.

[Res Ipsa]

So no, I don't have proof if the people who often come in asking me to fill out disability paperwork for kids with dry eye, or lazy eyes actually got approved but it wouldn't surprise me if they did if the standard is anything that prevents them from progressing in school. Where does the money come from for the $700/month checks these kids pull each month come from? I would guess that it's even more now since this article was written 8 years ago .

As I got further into this story, I started hearing about another group of people on disability: kids. People in Hale County told me that what you want is a kid who can "pull a check." Many people mentioned this, but I basically ignored it. It seemed like one of those things that maybe happened once or twice, got written up in the paper and became conversational fact among neighbors.

Then I looked at the numbers. I found that the number of kids on a program called Supplemental Security Income -- a program for children and adults who are both poor and disabled -- is almost seven times larger than it was 30 years ago.



Graph: Children on Disability (1974-2011)
Source: Social Security Administration
Credit: Lam Thuy Vo / NPR
Note: To see the number of disabled children on disability as a percentage of children eligible for the benefits, go here.
Jahleel Duroc (pictured above) is gap-toothed, 10 and vibrating with enthusiasm. He's excited to talk to someone new, excited to show me his map of his neighborhood in the Bronx. He's disabled in the eyes of the government because he has a learning disability.

"I like school," he told me. "My favorite periods are math and science and art, and lunch and recess and snack … social studies and writing are my favorite."

His favorite thing about school, in other words, is everything.

When you are an adult applying for disability you have to prove you cannot function in a "work-like setting." When you are a kid, a disability can be anything that prevents you from progressing in school. Two-thirds of all kids on the program today have been diagnosed with mental or intellectual problems.

Jahleel is a kid you can imagine doing very well for himself. He is delayed. But given the right circumstances and support, it's easy to believe that over the course of his schooling Jahleel could catch up.

Let's imagine that happens. Jahleel starts doing better in school, overcomes some of his disabilities. He doesn't need the disability program anymore. That would seem to be great for everyone, except for one thing: It would threaten his family's livelihood. Jahleel's family primarily survives off the monthly $700 check they get for his disability.[5]

Jahleel's mom wants him to do well in school. That is absolutely clear. But her livelihood depends on Jahleel struggling in school. This tension only increases as kids get older. One mother told me her teenage son wanted to work, but she didn't want him to get a job because if he did, the family would lose its disability check.

I haven't taken a survey or anything, but I'm guessing a large majority of Americans would be in favor of some form of government support for disabled children living in poverty. We would have a hard time agreeing on exactly how we want to offer support, but I think there are some basic things we'd all agree on.

Kids should be encouraged to go to school. Kids should want to do well in school. Parents should want their kids to do well in school. Kids should be confident their parents can provide for them regardless of how they do in school. Kids should become more and more independent as they grow older and hopefully be able to support themselves at around age 18.

The disability program stands in opposition to every one of these aims.

https://apps.npr.org/unfit-for-work/

For clarification, this is a chart of children receiving SSI benefits, which are paid out of the general fund and not the SS Trusts. SSI is a combination disability/poverty program. The total number of children receiving SSI benefits has declined from about 1.3 million in 2011, the last year of the chart Ajax posted, to a little over 1 million in January 2022. The average children's benefit is $733/mo. https://www.ssa.gov/legislation/2022factsheet.pdf

In 2020, there were about 73 million children. If the number receiving SSI benefits were comparable in 2020 and 2022, about 1.8% of children would be receiving SSI benefits. I suspect 2% is close enough for jazz.

[huckelberry]

SSDI is an earned benefit.

How long does a coal miner have to work before he and his dependents can collect SSDI. Say he starts getting a twinge in his back at 29 years of age and pulls a check until his 75. Does this money come from FICA or some other tax?

When an 8 year old kid come in with a lazy eye and the parents use that to start pulling a $750 a month check, where does that money come from?

This is probably my favorite all time article that explains what disability is all about.

https://apps.npr.org/unfit-for-work/

In a determination for disability having multiple problems helps establish the claim. It is entirely possible a person with other disabling problems has asked for disability medical determination for lazy eye to help get approval. You realize that a lot of people have their claims denied(at least in most areas of the US).

Ajax is presenting arguments that approval for disability claims have been too lax. It is at least possible that this could be a valid concern especially in some areas with unusually high numbers of recipients. I find it odd that this particular concern is being hooked onto a general complaint about social security.(that program that people pay into establishing a claim for some retirement income )

[Hawkeye]

For clarification: there are two Social Security Trust funds. One is called the OASI Trust Fund. OASI=Old Age and Survivors Insurance.

Do these different trust funds show up separately on your W2 form or are both trusts funded by the same payroll tax? What would stop the government from putting 70 or 80% of the FICA tax in the DI trust and leaving 20% for OASI, basically forcing anyone who wants to see a dime of that money to find a way to get a doctor to declare you disabled even if you live to be 100.

What does it matter if if you must have worked for a 1/4 of your adult life? If you're 30 and you worked from 18-28 than started to get some back pain, you'd still qualify and once people get on disability <0.001% ever legally go back to work. You could draw benefits for the next 40 years. How is that sustainable? I guess just keep taxing the people who have always paid the bills, even if they're still working part time at 70 years old.

[Hawkeye]

So no, I don't have proof if the people who often come in asking me to fill out disability paperwork for kids with dry eye, or lazy eyes actually got approved but it wouldn't surprise me if they did if the standard is anything that prevents them from progressing in school. Where does the money come from for the $700/month checks these kids pull each month come from? I would guess that it's even more now since this article was written 8 years ago .



https://apps.npr.org/unfit-for-work/

For clarification, this is a chart of children receiving SSI benefits, which are paid out of the general fund and not the SS Trusts. SSI is a combination disability/poverty program. The total number of children receiving SSI benefits has declined from about 1.3 million in 2011, the last year of the chart Ajax posted, to a little over 1 million in January 2022. The average children's benefit is $733/mo. https://www.ssa.gov/legislation/2022factsheet.pdf

In 2020, there were about 73 million children. If the number receiving SSI benefits were comparable in 2020 and 2022, about 1.8% of children would be receiving SSI benefits. I suspect 2% is close enough for jazz.

What percent of our income tax goes to SSI benefits? Is social security tax still around 10% of our income?