The Nihilism of MAGA World

[Some Schmo]

I've been saying this for a while now.

The Nihilism of MAGA World

Joe Biden’s “Soul of the Nation” address got at a cold and disquieting truth: The MAGA movement cannot be placated, reasoned with, or politically accommodated in any way. There is nothing its adherents want—and nothing anyone can give them—beyond chaos and political destruction.

Soul Sickness
Joe Biden’s address to the American people last week was, as I wrote at the time, necessary and right. The staging was bizarre, and the speech had some of the hallmarks of a group product that hadn’t been subjected to a final spackle-and-smooth by a chief writer. But Biden got one big thing right, and that one thing explains why Donald Trump and the MAGA World apologists are reacting with such fury. The president outed them as anti-American nihilists:

"They promote authoritarian leaders, and they fan the flames of political violence that are a threat to our personal rights, to the pursuit of justice, to the rule of law, to the very soul of this country … MAGA Republicans have made their choice. They embrace anger. They thrive on chaos. They live not in the light of truth but in the shadow of lies."

This, as Biden pointed out, is what makes the MAGA movement so dangerous. It has no functional compass and no set of actual preferences beyond a generalized resentment, a basket of gripes and grudges against others who the Trumpists think are looking down upon them or living better lives than they are. It is a movement composed of people who are economically comfortable and middle-class, who enjoy a relatively high standard of living, and yet who seethe with a sense that they have been done dirt, screwed over, betrayed—and they are determined to get revenge.

Biden broke with tradition by saying what presidents are never supposed to say: He admitted that he was finally giving up on trying to accommodate a group of Americans, because he understands that they do not want to be accommodated. I know that some of my friends and colleagues believe that Biden, as president, must continue to reach out to MAGA voters because they are our neighbors and our fellow citizens. (The former GOP operative and my fellow Never Trumper Tim Miller made this point just this morning.) My instinct is to agree with them. But how do we reach those voters? These citizens do not want a discussion or a compromise. They don’t even want to “win,” in any traditional political sense of that word. They want to vent anger over their lives—their personal problems, their haunted sense of inferiority, and their fears about social status—on other Americans, as vehemently as possible, even to the point of violence.

How do any of us, and especially the president, engage with such a movement, when every discussion includes the belief that the only legitimate outcomes are ones in which the MAGA choice wins? Such an insistence is not civic or democratic in any way, and it is not amenable to resolution through the democratic process.

This, by the way, is why it was a mistake for Biden to raise issues such as abortion and privacy in his speech. Yes, the opportunists who will ride into political office on the bed of a pickup flying MAGA flags will attack these rights, but that is incidental to their real interest, which is power and the spoils it brings. Issues such as abortion, LGBTQ rights, and contraception are really just hot buttons meant to rile up the voters. (MAGA World, as a movement, seems to have a kind of tabloid-television-style obsession with sex, which makes sense, as it is led by a tabloid star who literally bragged about the size of his penis on a GOP debate stage.)

For Biden even to mention something like abortion undermined the more important part of his speech, which is that MAGA is a movement that doesn’t believe in anything but violence, chaos, and power. Right-wing pundits have seized on that part of his speech because it was the only thing they could argue with; they know that trying to describe MAGA and Trumpism with any consistency is pointless. Smaller government? More democracy? Power to “We the People”? Good luck with that: Trump just endorsed a GOP candidate for governor, Geoff Diehl in Massachusetts, by telling a crowd that Diehl will “rule your state with an iron fist, and he’ll do what has to be done.”

As a native son of the Commonwealth, I have no concerns that the Bay State is going to elect someone on Donald Trump’s say-so. But Trump’s authoritarian blather makes Biden’s point. The MAGA movement isn’t interested in politics, or policies, or compromises. It is interested in destruction and seeing others made as miserable as its followers are. MAGA is a movement of people who seem to be, in so many ways, deeply and profoundly unhappy, and suffering from an emptiness and anger deep in their spirit. There is no political solution for that. All Joe Biden did was finally say this obvious truth out loud.

*Bolding mine.

I have no idea how we're supposed to get these people grow a rational brain. The only way it can happen is for them to quit listening to the voices encouraging their self-pity.

[Gadianton]

I broadly agree with the article, but the psychoanalysis is a bit of a generalization. It isn't true that all right-wingers are profoundly unhappy and suffering. It might be true for some. Many of the extreme cases you hear about where people go off their rocker and actually do what DT asks them to do are empty and miserable. Some, like Ajax, Liz and A-Mike you have to wonder about. You don't know how much their antics here reflect their real lives. To the extend their posting here reflects who they really are, then sure, a case can be made. But I think others are quite happy, satisfied, and energized. Even a certain amount of anger towards "the left" is a net positive for them. Gives them identity and purpose. A right-wing friend of mine from my youth who I keep in relative contact with is a die-hard conspiracy theorist and right-wing ideologue. Not sure he's really into trump, but the whole fight against "socialism" and Covid is a government scam and so on, he's as committed as any of them. It gives him identity and community. He's made some mistakes in life, and his utter commitment to the cause has been a big bonus for him in finding acceptance. The social media circulations with his friends is a big personal booster throughout his day. The energy of feeling some redemption and part of something really important, and really energized toward a (terribly unspecified) goal keeps him on track in his personal life. The best way I can put it is right-wing politics is a replacement for his previous community with Amway, and Amway was a substitute for what the Church should have been to him but fell short. It is very cult like, and he needs a cult.

BUT---not everyone involved is a cult follower. Many are opportunists. As KG told us about his doctor who said you have to vote with your wallet. For a lot of people, the mentally deranged cultists are fodder for keeping their taxes low. And what about the DCPs? While DCP says he didn't vote for Trump, he said he was tempted in order to get conservative Supreme Court Justices. There are many who are slightly more than that, they are MEGA opportunists who believe Trump and MEGA is the extra boost needed to secure an array of objectives, whether it's low taxes, axing abortion, or whatever.

And who is more dangerous? MAGA is like betting on bitcoin. It's a leveraged bet, and if lucky, they'll succeed in undermining elections and put themselves in power permanently. But if they aren't lucky, they'll go to jail or get weeded out. I saw it mentioned recently that Democrats are supporting the Trump-backed candidates (not sure how) in some states out of the belief that they can't win the general elections. Generally, I see it predicted that Trump can't win 2024. And so the crazy-crazy on a sober bet favors Democrats. Trump is corrupt as crap. It's bad, but there's always another side to the coin. Trump isn't against abortion or even for gun rights, he's just corrupt and does what he needs to in order to stay in power. Corruption is a problem that could always potentially be exploited. As information has trickled in, professor Dugin, whose daughter was killed in the car bomb, it turns out has a strained relationship with Putin. All those quotes we've heard where Dugin cries for Putin to be more radical aren't complementary. Dugin's portrait of Putin is exactly how pro-Ukraine folks see it -- corrupt as hell and it's all about his personal glory. Dugin thinks Putin can be a stepping stone, but he's not the messiah. The messiah would be, I want to say, more like Stalin (not his words to my knowledge) who is an ideologue, and selflessly committed to the cause in the most ruthless manner.

And so the problem is, once the dust clears from MAGA blowing up, should they lose, you've got folks like Liz Cheney, Amy Barrett, Sam Alito; goody-two-shoes, straight-laced, law-abiding honest people, but ideologues, and complete religious fanatics. What happens when by playing within the rules, Christian Reconstructionism arises from the ashes of MEGA and the laws of Deuteronomy find their way into our interpretation of the Constitution?

I'll end here for now, as Binger doesn't like my long posts. Later I'll float my idea for the solution. There isn't a good one.

[Binger]

I'll end here for now, as Binger doesn't like my long posts. Later I'll float my idea for the solution. There isn't a good one.

Your long posts are fine but I like the one about the semi-auto shotgun with a modified choke better. Your details are a HELL OF LOT BETTER and more interesting than your assumptions. By a lot.

Have a great evening, Gad.

[Gunnar]

And so the problem is, once the dust clears from MEGA blowing up, should they lose, you've got folks like Liz Cheney, Amy Barrett, Sam Alito; goody-two-shoes, straight-laced, law-abiding honest people, but ideologues, and complete religious fanatics. What happens when by playing within the rules, Christian Reconstructionism arises from the ashes of MEGA and the laws of Deuteronomy find their way into our interpretation of the Constitution?

I'll end here for now, as Binger doesn't like my long posts. Later I'll float my idea for the solution. There isn't a good one.

What do you mean by "MEGA?" Is that another iteration or version of "MAGA?"

[Gunnar]

I've been saying this for a while now.

The Nihilism of MAGA World

Joe Biden’s “Soul of the Nation” address got at a cold and disquieting truth: The MAGA movement cannot be placated, reasoned with, or politically accommodated in any way. There is nothing its adherents want—and nothing anyone can give them—beyond chaos and political destruction.

Soul Sickness
Joe Biden’s address to the American people last week was, as I wrote at the time, necessary and right. The staging was bizarre, and the speech had some of the hallmarks of a group product that hadn’t been subjected to a final spackle-and-smooth by a chief writer. But Biden got one big thing right, and that one thing explains why Donald Trump and the MAGA World apologists are reacting with such fury. The president outed them as anti-American nihilists:

"They promote authoritarian leaders, and they fan the flames of political violence that are a threat to our personal rights, to the pursuit of justice, to the rule of law, to the very soul of this country … MAGA Republicans have made their choice. They embrace anger. They thrive on chaos. They live not in the light of truth but in the shadow of lies."

This, as Biden pointed out, is what makes the MAGA movement so dangerous. It has no functional compass and no set of actual preferences beyond a generalized resentment, a basket of gripes and grudges against others who the Trumpists think are looking down upon them or living better lives than they are. It is a movement composed of people who are economically comfortable and middle-class, who enjoy a relatively high standard of living, and yet who seethe with a sense that they have been done dirt, screwed over, betrayed—and they are determined to get revenge.

Biden broke with tradition by saying what presidents are never supposed to say: He admitted that he was finally giving up on trying to accommodate a group of Americans, because he understands that they do not want to be accommodated. I know that some of my friends and colleagues believe that Biden, as president, must continue to reach out to MAGA voters because they are our neighbors and our fellow citizens. (The former GOP operative and my fellow Never Trumper Tim Miller made this point just this morning.) My instinct is to agree with them. But how do we reach those voters? These citizens do not want a discussion or a compromise. They don’t even want to “win,” in any traditional political sense of that word. They want to vent anger over their lives—their personal problems, their haunted sense of inferiority, and their fears about social status—on other Americans, as vehemently as possible, even to the point of violence.

How do any of us, and especially the president, engage with such a movement, when every discussion includes the belief that the only legitimate outcomes are ones in which the MAGA choice wins? Such an insistence is not civic or democratic in any way, and it is not amenable to resolution through the democratic process.

This, by the way, is why it was a mistake for Biden to raise issues such as abortion and privacy in his speech. Yes, the opportunists who will ride into political office on the bed of a pickup flying MAGA flags will attack these rights, but that is incidental to their real interest, which is power and the spoils it brings. Issues such as abortion, LGBTQ rights, and contraception are really just hot buttons meant to rile up the voters. (MAGA World, as a movement, seems to have a kind of tabloid-television-style obsession with sex, which makes sense, as it is led by a tabloid star who literally bragged about the size of his penis on a GOP debate stage.)

For Biden even to mention something like abortion undermined the more important part of his speech, which is that MAGA is a movement that doesn’t believe in anything but violence, chaos, and power. Right-wing pundits have seized on that part of his speech because it was the only thing they could argue with; they know that trying to describe MAGA and Trumpism with any consistency is pointless. Smaller government? More democracy? Power to “We the People”? Good luck with that: Trump just endorsed a GOP candidate for governor, Geoff Diehl in Massachusetts, by telling a crowd that Diehl will “rule your state with an iron fist, and he’ll do what has to be done.”

As a native son of the Commonwealth, I have no concerns that the Bay State is going to elect someone on Donald Trump’s say-so. But Trump’s authoritarian blather makes Biden’s point. The MAGA movement isn’t interested in politics, or policies, or compromises. It is interested in destruction and seeing others made as miserable as its followers are. MAGA is a movement of people who seem to be, in so many ways, deeply and profoundly unhappy, and suffering from an emptiness and anger deep in their spirit. There is no political solution for that. All Joe Biden did was finally say this obvious truth out loud.

*Bolding mine.

I have no idea how we're supposed to get these people grow a rational brain. The only way it can happen is for them to quit listening to the voices encouraging their self-pity.

I generally agree with that assessment. It has become clear that the MAGA crowd really couldn't care less what the actual truth is, as long as they can "own the libs" and prevent any candidates other than Republicans from winning elections, regardless of their merits. Some of them have even come right out and admitted that they don't care how deplorable or corrupt Republican candidates are, they'll hold their nose and vote for them anyway, if necessary to prevent Democrats from being elected, without even knowing anything about them, other than that they are not Republicans.

Most news organizations tend to fire or disciplining reporters who are caught in a lie or making things up without attribution. FOX and other hard right news organizations have shown that they are more likely to fire or threaten their reporters for refusing to lie for them.

[Gadianton]

sorry Gunner, I meant MAGA.

[Gunnar]

sorry Gunner, I meant MAGA.

I thought so! Apology accepted! But please spell my name correctly from now on! It is "Gunnar", not "Gunner!" You seem to have a propensity for substituting e's for a's.

[Res Ipsa]

I follow Tom on Twitter. He leans conservative, but the kind of conservative that Ajax would dismiss as a RINO. He’sa pretty straight shooter. He wrote that piece, but he was very critical of having the Marines in the background of the speech. I find his positions to be thoughtful and well supported, even when I don’t agree with him.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Yeah, I suppose the Commander in Chief having a couple of jarheads present to frame a shot is just so egregious. So, so egregious. These fuckin’ guys. Their party is rife with secessionists, insurrectionists, and a President who literally steals TS/SCI, but Biden having a Hollywood shot ‘sends a threatening message’.



Anyway. OP is correct. The MAGAs had some major wins like packing SCrOTUS with deeply religious people, imposing forced births onto women and girls, and generally damned up governments across the land. Hell, they got to crap on the Capitol. Literally! But that’s not enough. Nope! Not enough until Ajax is bartering in shitcoin and tulip bulbs, and we’re ruled by a King and the Church because that’s the natural order of things. Know your place, Demonrats.

- Doc

[Some Schmo]

I broadly agree with the article, but the psychoanalysis is a bit of a generalization. It isn't true that all right-wingers are profoundly unhappy and suffering. It might be true for some. Many of the extreme cases you hear about where people go off their rocker and actually do what DT asks them to do are empty and miserable. Some, like Ajax, Liz and A-Mike you have to wonder about. You don't know how much their antics here reflect their real lives. To the extend their posting here reflects who they really are, then sure, a case can be made. But I think others are quite happy, satisfied, and energized. Even a certain amount of anger towards "the left" is a net positive for them. Gives them identity and purpose.

Of course it's impossible to psychoanalyze and entire group based on a common attribute (Trump fan), and I agree that it's unlikely they're all miserable. I do think there has to be a certain combination of self-pity and bad information that drives their enthusiasm, however. I also think the article is referring to fully committed Trump fans, not opportunistic Republicans who turn a blind eye.

But that wasn't really the part of the article I cared about. The main takeaway for me was that Trump fans are unreasonable; they refuse to acknowledge reason. "If you could reason with a Trump fan, they wouldn't be a Trump fan," as I heard one day. That's the real problem. People are always going to be miserable, but many are open to hearing facts that could ease their pain. Committed Trump fans are not. They hold on to the nonsense so they can justify their anger and irrational behavior.