DiscussMormonism.com

doubtingthomas wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 24, 2022 7:11 pm

Res Ipsa wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 22, 2022 7:22 pm

says man

No more "says man"?

I'm open minded. I am willing to change my mind if someone gives me a good reason to change it.

Based on my many experience discussing/debating with you, I disagree. in my opinion, you latch onto narrow issues with complete tunnel vision, refusing to consider context or any countervailing issues. Most appear to stem from some experience in your life that is also divorced from the context in which it arose. A good example is your claim that nobody is willing to talk about the issue you want to talk about, while citing an article that not only talks about, but offers a solution, to the very problem you claim no one is willing to address.

And I don’t think you understand how offputting your tactic to try and make people talk about what you want to talk about is. It sure looks like you are trying to shame people to make them address the topic you want to talk about by badgering them with the same or similar questions over and over, implying that being willing to engage with you is somehow immoral. I doubt you perceive it this way, but it is a very manipulative tactic. Everybody here is an adult and gets to talk about whatever they choose to talk about. I’ve posted about topics I find really interesting or important, only to find no one else sees them that way. And that’s perfectly okay. People get to talk about what they want to talk about. No has an obligation to engage on any given topic.

Res Ipsa wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 24, 2022 7:31 pm

doubtingthomas wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 24, 2022 7:11 pm

No more "says man"?

I'm open minded. I am willing to change my mind if someone gives me a good reason to change it.

Based on my many experience discussing/debating with you, I disagree. in my opinion, you latch onto narrow issues with complete tunnel vision, refusing to consider context or any countervailing issues. Most appear to stem from some experience in your life that is also divorced from the context in which it arose. A good example is your claim that nobody is willing to talk about the issue you want to talk about, while citing an article that not only talks about, but offers a solution, to the very problem you claim no one is willing to address.

And I don’t think you understand how offputting your tactic to try and make people talk about what you want to talk about is. It sure looks like you are trying to shame people to make them address the topic you want to talk about by badgering them with the same or similar questions over and over, implying that being willing to engage with you is somehow immoral. I doubt you perceive it this way, but it is a very manipulative tactic. Everybody here is an adult and gets to talk about whatever they choose to talk about. I’ve posted about topics I find really interesting or important, only to find no one else sees them that way. And that’s perfectly okay. People get to talk about what they want to talk about. No has an obligation to engage on any given topic.

Okay sir, you are entitled to your opinion about me.

I understand there are many solutions, but the article doesn't answer my specific questions.

I'm not against all illegal immigration, it's mostly good for the US economy as a whole.

doubtingthomas wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 24, 2022 8:16 pm

I'm not against illegal immigration, it's mostly good for the US economy as a whole.

All nations with a border should have some border control. Did you see that line of cars from Russia looking to get into Finland?

doubtingthomas wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 24, 2022 7:01 pm

Morley wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 23, 2022 11:46 pm

Usually they do, yes. An undocumented worker will often use a fake social security number and pay FICA on their wages.

It's not a fake social security, it's identity theft. Someone was using my social security in Arizona. But we can forgive that because most of them simply work in restaurants.

Do you have any evidence that most construction workers and roofers pay taxes?

What's your beef with construction workers?

However, you're changing the subject again. Why does it bother you that a worker will take money back to Mexico?

Morley wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:12 pm

What's your beef with construction workers?

However, you're changing the subject again. Why does it bother you that a worker will take money back to Mexico?

Undocumented construction workers and roofers paid child sex trafficking organizations, don't pay taxes, and take thousands of US dollars to Mexico. Would you agree illegal immigration hurts low-skilled workers?

I understand there are proposed solutions fight human smugglers, but it doesn't change the fact that a lot of undocumented immigrants already paid criminal organizations. Should there be a punishment for people who paid criminal organizations?

Morley wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:12 pm

. Why does it bother you that a worker will take money back to Mexico?

It hurts the poor?

"Professor Swain based her comments on a study conducted by the Pew Hispanic Center, which found high unemployment rates among African Americans and Hispanics were partially attributed to the large number of low-skilled immigrants. "

“The greatest competition occurs among people at the margins of society, a multi-racial group that includes poorly educated blacks, whites and Hispanics who compete against each other and against new immigrants for low-wage, low-skill jobs,” Professor Swain writes.

https://law.vanderbilt.edu/news/illegal ... americans/

Morley wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:12 pm

What's your beef with construction workers?

However, you're changing the subject again. Why does it bother you that a worker will take money back to Mexico?

doubtingthomas wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:31 pm

Undocumented construction workers and roofers paid child sex trafficking organizations,

We don't know that any given construction worker paid any "child sex trafficking organizations." Again, you're changing the subject. What's your beef with construction workers?

doubtingthomas wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:31 pm

don't pay taxes,

see: Huckelberry's post above. They pay gas, sales, property, and payroll taxes.

doubtingthomas wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:31 pm

and take thousands of US dollars to Mexico.

Again, what's your problem with folks taking money to Mexico? You've never answered this question.

doubtingthomas wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:31 pm

Would you agree illegal immigration hurts low-skilled workers?

No, I wouldn't. Besides, construction workers are far from what would be called "unskilled."

doubtingthomas wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:31 pm

Should there be a punishment for people who paid criminal organizations?

We don't know that any given person paid any given criminal organization for anything. You're making assumptions. Many people come here on their own.

...

DT: You seem to have an agenda that you're not willing to talk about. If I'm reading it right, it's something about construction workers and roofers taking money back to Mexico to their young wives. You won't explain it, but instead go off on tangents that no one can make heads nor tails of.

Good faith efforts to respectfully engage you go nowhere.

I think Res Ipsa said it best

Res Ipsa wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 24, 2022 7:31 pm

Based on my many experience discussing/debating with you, I disagree. in my opinion, you latch onto narrow issues with complete tunnel vision, refusing to consider context or any countervailing issues. Most appear to stem from some experience in your life that is also divorced from the context in which it arose. A good example is your claim that nobody is willing to talk about the issue you want to talk about, while citing an article that not only talks about, but offers a solution, to the very problem you claim no one is willing to address.

And I don’t think you understand how offputting your tactic to try and make people talk about what you want to talk about is. It sure looks like you are trying to shame people to make them address the topic you want to talk about by badgering them with the same or similar questions over and over, implying that being willing to engage with you is somehow immoral. I doubt you perceive it this way, but it is a very manipulative tactic. Everybody here is an adult and gets to talk about whatever they choose to talk about. I’ve posted about topics I find really interesting or important, only to find no one else sees them that way. And that’s perfectly okay. People get to talk about what they want to talk about. No has an obligation to engage on any given topic.

Good luck to you in your troubles, Thomas.

Morley wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:12 pm

Why does it bother you that a worker will take money back to Mexico?

doubtingthomas wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:39 pm

It hurts the poor?

"Professor Swain based her comments on a study conducted by the Pew Hispanic Center, which found high unemployment rates among African Americans and Hispanics were partially attributed to the large number of low-skilled immigrants. "

“The greatest competition occurs among people at the margins of society, a multi-racial group that includes poorly educated blacks, whites and Hispanics who compete against each other and against new immigrants for low-wage, low-skill jobs,” Professor Swain writes.

https://law.vanderbilt.edu/news/illegal ... americans/

This 15 year-old piece you scrounged up has nothing to do with people taking money back to Mexico.

Morley wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 25, 2022 1:46 am

see: Huckelberry's post above. They pay gas, sales, property, and payroll taxes.

I need a reference that construction workers and roofers pay payroll taxes.

doubtingthomas wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:31 pm

We don't know that any given construction worker paid any "child sex trafficking organizations." Again, you're changing the subject. What's your beef with construction workers?

A lot of smugglers are sex traffickers.

Morley wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 25, 2022 1:46 am

Many people come here on their own.

I'm not disputing that, I'm not against all illegal immigration.

Morley wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 25, 2022 1:49 am

This 15 year-old piece you scrounged up has nothing to do with people taking money back to Mexico.

It doesn't, but it's true. You can't pretend there's no problem. And we both agree some undocumented immigrants take a lot of US dollars to Mexico.

"The negative effect of immigration on wages is primarily confined to native workers in low-skilled occupations. Immigration lowers wages for those at the bottom of the economic scale...the introduction of immigrants in the labor force increases consumption, spending, and investing, which leads to an increase in GDP and economic growth."
https://digitalcommons.winthrop.edu/sou ... ances/217/

"Those panelists that found modest effects overall nonetheless found significant effects in industry sectors such as meatpacking and construction....Moreover, halting illegal immigration is not a panacea even for the problem of depressed wage rates for low-skilled jobs... Still, the effect of illegal immigration on the wages of low-skilled workers, who are disproportionately minority members, is a piece of the puzzle that must be considered by policymakers in formulating sound immigration policy."
https://www.jstor.org/stable/2728791

Res Ipsa wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 24, 2022 7:31 pm

People get to talk about what they want to talk about. No has an obligation to engage on any given topic.

True, but it's kind of rude when someone stops replying for no reason, especially after you ask a tough question.