Belief in God

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KevinSim
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Re: Belief in God

Post by KevinSim »

Some Schmo wrote:
Sun Nov 06, 2022 5:20 am
I don't know the truth value of that assumption, but I can say the odds that there is life on another planer is infinitely greater than the chances some benevolent god created this earth.
I'm not sure that I believe a deity created Earth either. And I'm reasonably certain it took longer than six days regardless.
Some Schmo wrote:]The whole god idea is a nonfactor in the way I conduct my life, except to the extent I question other people about their personal god concepts.
Some Schmo, feel free to question me about my personal god concepts!
Some Schmo wrote:If you apply the way you see Bigfoot to the way I see your god, you'll understand why I don't assume any gods exist.
If Bigfoot/Sasquatch had to exist in order for some good things to be preserved forever, I'd believe in Bigfoot.
KevinSim
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Re: Belief in God

Post by KevinSim »

Some Schmo wrote:
Sun Nov 06, 2022 5:29 am
KevinSim wrote:
Sat Nov 05, 2022 9:03 pm
Some Schmo, how could God have created the stable environment you spoke of, one where we "didn't need to worry about shifting tectonic plates or extreme weather"? Is that an easy thing to do, to create such a stable environment?
I would think it would be for a universe creator.
I'm not even convinced God created the Universe. I'm also pretty sure God didn't just will the Universe into existence. If God played any part at all, I believe what He did was make use of natural processes. If that were the case, such influence would not necessarily give Him the power to create a planet suitable for life without any tectonic activity.
Some Schmo wrote:I've come to the undeniable conclusion that any and every assertion about a god is made up.
It is absolutely not true that any and every assertion about a god is made up. There, it's not undeniable, since I just denied it.
Some Schmo wrote:I don't respect people's "beliefs" just because they have them, especially when so many of them are silly or downright stupid.
I don't expect you to respect my beliefs just because I have them. I expect you to respect my beliefs because they make sense. If they don't make sense to you, then I clearly understand why you would not respect them.
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canpakes
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Re: Belief in God

Post by canpakes »

KevinSim wrote:
Thu Nov 10, 2022 12:50 am
canpakes wrote:
Sun Nov 06, 2022 1:15 am
KevinSim, what is it about LDS doctrine that supports this thinking, or enables it to be realized?
Canpakes, I'm not aware that there's anything in LDS doctrine that supports this thinking. Do you think there should be?
It would seem like a laudable objective to be supported through the Church, even regardless of the importance that you or I would assign it. Wouldn’t you see it as such, if you believe that the Church is God’s required and preferred faith vehicle for mankind?
Realizing it is God's principal function; …
What is this claim based on?
… God uses the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to accomplish it. I don't know how God is doing it, but I believe He is.
You could as well state that you believe that God is not ‘doing it’, and that ‘it’ isn’t being done by anyone in particular, if you don’t know how to recognize such actions or results. Is membership in the CoJCoLDS necessary to participate in something that cannot be identified, promoted or observed to happen through church doctrine?

In other words, what are you doing that you see as unique to the Church and that requires membership within it, that satisfies the ‘preserve good things’ requirement that you may not recognize as being accomplished by the Church itself?
Chap
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Re: Belief in God

Post by Chap »

KevinSim wrote:
Wed Nov 09, 2022 11:25 pm
Chap wrote:
Sat Nov 05, 2022 10:39 pm
In that case, you do not believe in the deity worshipped by the great majority of religious Jews, Christians and Muslims.
Chap, you are absolutely right. I have no desire to worship the "deity worshipped by the great majority of religious Jews, Christians and Muslims."
Chap wrote:But those other people's deities are omnipotent, and cannot therefore make use of that cop-out.
What cop-out are you talking about?
Chap wrote:What sets the limits of your deity's powers?
The physical Universe.
You just answered your own question.

The deity worshipped by the three great Abrahamic religions is the omnipotent creator of the universe, and hence the author of its physical laws.

The deity of Mormonism (if I understand rightly) is not the omnipotent creator of the universe and the author of its laws. In fact, he is bound by those laws. Therefore, unlike the Abrahamic deity, if reproached about why he permits plagues, earthquakes, tsunamis etc. with all the suffering they cause, he can point to those laws and hence cop out of any responsibility.

Having answered your question, I think I am entitled to put a question to you. If you ask my kind of atheist "What is the ultimate origin of the universe?", my answer would be "I don't have a satisfactory answer to that, and in fact I am not even sure that that is a meaningful question." A believer in one of the Abrahamic religions (as I once was) would probably answer "The universe exists because God created it and sustains it."

What is your answer to that question, given the kind of deity you have choosing to believe in?
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Mayan Elephant:
Not only have I denounced the Big Lie, I have denounced the Big lie big lie.
Nomomo
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Re: Belief in God

Post by Nomomo »

KevinSim wrote:
Wed Oct 12, 2022 2:51 am
Why shouldn't I believe in God?
Because it is stupid to do so, There is zero evidence
KevinSim
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Re: Belief in God

Post by KevinSim »

Chap wrote:
Thu Nov 10, 2022 11:16 am
Therefore, unlike the Abrahamic deity, if reproached about why he permits plagues, earthquakes, tsunamis etc. with all the suffering they cause, he can point to those laws and hence cop out of any responsibility.
Chap, why is that a cop out? If you asked Antonio Guterres, Secretary General of the United Nations, why he didn't keep Planet Earth from having any tectonic activity, and he responded that such a task was out of his power, would that response also be a cop out?
Chap wrote:Having answered your question, I think I am entitled to put a question to you. If you ask my kind of atheist "What is the ultimate origin of the universe?", my answer would be "I don't have a satisfactory answer to that, and in fact I am not even sure that that is a meaningful question." ... What is your answer to that question, given the kind of deity you have choosing to believe in?
I also don't have a satisfactory answer. I'm toying with the idea that God may have had some hand in originating it, but I don't think, like some Christians do, that God simply willed it into existence. Stephen Baxter, in his book Manifold: Time, theorized that each universe may have originated as a black hole from another universe; I consider that a tantalizing possibility.
KevinSim
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Re: Belief in God

Post by KevinSim »

Nomomo wrote:
Thu Nov 10, 2022 11:28 am
KevinSim wrote:
Wed Oct 12, 2022 2:51 am
Why shouldn't I believe in God?
Because it is stupid to do so, There is zero evidence
Nomomo, are you saying that it's stupid to believe in something for which there is no evidence? Is there any evidence of intelligent extraterrestrial life? If not, does that mean the people of SETI (Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence) are stupid to be looking for radio signals from extraterrestrial civilizations?
Chap
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Re: Belief in God

Post by Chap »

KevinSim wrote:
Thu Nov 10, 2022 4:51 pm
I'm toying with the idea that God may have had some hand in originating it, but I don't think, like some Christians do, that God simply willed it into existence. Stephen Baxter, in his book Manifold: Time, theorized that each universe may have originated as a black hole from another universe; I consider that a tantalizing possibility.
So, um, who created those other universes with their black holes? And who created the entity you call "God"?
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Mayan Elephant:
Not only have I denounced the Big Lie, I have denounced the Big lie big lie.
KevinSim
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Posts: 514
Joined: Sun May 08, 2022 1:09 am

Re: Belief in God

Post by KevinSim »

canpakes wrote:
Thu Nov 10, 2022 7:20 am
It would seem like a laudable objective to be supported through the Church, even regardless of the importance that you or I would assign it. Wouldn’t you see it as such, if you believe that the Church is God’s required and preferred faith vehicle for mankind?
Well, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints works toward the eternal life of every person who is willing to be baptized into it, and that eternal life would definitely be a good thing preserved forever.
canpakes wrote:
Realizing it is God's principal function; …
What is this claim based on?
God told a Latter-day Saint prophet that his work and his glory was to bring about the immortality and eternal life of all mankind. That's what that claim is based on.
canpakes wrote:You could as well state that you believe that God is not ‘doing it’, and that ‘it’ isn’t being done by anyone in particular, if you don’t know how to recognize such actions or results.
Yes, I could state that, but what would be the point of stating that? I think it would be a whole lot more productive to believe someone is doing it.
canpakes wrote:Is membership in the CoJCoLDS necessary to participate in something that cannot be identified, promoted or observed to happen through church doctrine?
That's a question we need to ask God.
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Some Schmo
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Re: Belief in God

Post by Some Schmo »

KevinSim wrote:
Thu Nov 10, 2022 1:15 am
If Bigfoot/Sasquatch had to exist in order for some good things to be preserved forever, I'd believe in Bigfoot.
How would you know?

Talking about beliefs that make no sense, this tops the list.
Religion is for people whose existential fear is greater than their common sense.

The god idea is popular with desperate people.
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