Will the Republic as we know it end?

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Kishkumen
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Will the Republic as we know it end?

Post by Kishkumen »

One of my favorite lectures to deliver to my classes is the lecture on Constantine. You might have expected me to say Julius Caesar, given the title of this OP, but I am going to open this post with Constantine, and I think you'll be able to get the connection here.

You see, Constantine made a monumental difference in the history of the West. People remember his vision before the Battle of the Milvian Bridge, in which he was instructed to fight under the Chi Rho (usually referred to as the Sign of the Cross in most modern renditions), but what they do not realize is that there was really only one aspect of Constantine's story that is truly interesting.

It is not the dream.
It is not fighting under the symbol of a divinity for victory.

You see, what Constantine did was pretty much what Roman generals and emperors had done for centuries. The only major difference, but the one that made all the difference, was Constantine's choice of patron deities before battle.

Centuries before Constantine, the man who became the emperor Augustus chose Apollo as his patron deity. And he credited Apollo for his victory. Constantine chose the Christian god, and it was in the nature of this god not to tolerate the worship of other gods. That little twist changed the entire game. Constantine did the usual thing in choosing a patron deity before a major battle, but the god he chose made all the difference and set the West down a quite different path.

The GOP selected Donald Trump to be their candidate for president in 2016. He went on to win the presidency. All of this was done through the usual political process. The problem turned out to be the man himself. When he was slow to put aside his business after being sworn in, people on the Right and a number of Independents were not very fussed about it. "He's a businessman. What do you expect?" When he eventually made a show of putting his business in the hands of his sons, most people understood this was an empty gesture, but increasingly people let it drop.

The abnormalities, however, just continued. And they became more pronounced. The coup de grâce was when Trump persisted in not accepting his loss in the 2020 election. People on the Right may say that the Democrats did not accept Donald Trump's victory in 2016, and there is a certain truth to what they say. But then we look at how the objections of each side played out, and there was/is a crucial difference. Democrats and Republican opponents of Trump used the existing system to oppose Trump. They acted more or less within the law.

The MAGA GOP did not. If they did not get what they wanted, they would seek to overturn the system itself. Now there are roughly 300 MAGA GOP candidates for office around the country who are committed to the false notion that the 2020 election was stolen, and prominent ones among them have suggested that they will not accept the results of the midterm elections. Commentators have rightly pointed out that this is a recipe for chaos, and that it may signal the end of free and fair elections in the US. You see, not only have some of these MAGA Republicans suggested they will not accept the results of this election, some of them have also promised one-party rule in the future.

I think people are right to be very worried. We could be a few days or a few election cycles away from losing the Republic as we have known it.
"It is . . . rare for scholars to comment on the claims of writers like Barker, for the simple reason that they are generally too ill informed . . . to spend time that might be employed more usefully in engaging people who actually know what they are talking about." ~Ron Huggins
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Re: Will the Republic as we know it end?

Post by honorentheos »

Hi Kish,

Thank you for taking the time to set up the comparison with Constantine as you did. I picked up Gibbon's The Christians and the Fall of Rome many years back which challenged my (probably still) naïve understanding of the influence of Christianity on the course of Western history. It's an interesting comparison to make with our times.
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Kishkumen
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Re: Will the Republic as we know it end?

Post by Kishkumen »

honorentheos wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 3:02 pm
Hi Kish,

Thank you for taking the time to set up the comparison with Constantine as you did. I picked up Gibbon's The Christians and the Fall of Rome many years back which challenged my (probably still) naïve understanding of the influence of Christianity on the course of Western history. It's an interesting comparison to make with our times.
Thanks, honor. One of the things I am trying to show here is that people often do not know when the frog is well boiled because they were unable to believe the water was getting way too warm well before the frog was dead. Right now Binger is in Spirit Prison lecturing me on how the real problem is mail-in ballots, and that the Democrats have already cooked us. That, too, is an interesting argument, although I would say it lacks evidence of the problem, whereas the assault on the Capitol was broadcast on live television.
"It is . . . rare for scholars to comment on the claims of writers like Barker, for the simple reason that they are generally too ill informed . . . to spend time that might be employed more usefully in engaging people who actually know what they are talking about." ~Ron Huggins
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ajax18
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Re: Will the Republic as we know it end?

Post by ajax18 »

The issue for most voters is and should be what the economic results of a Democrat controlled House, Senate, and presidency are right now. You have to win the battle before we argue about which deity to credit it to. Right now America is losing on inflation, the stock market, the economy, COVID policy, school closures, oil/gasoline prices, energy independence, the southern border, inner city crime/defund the police, America's international sphere of influence/Russia, disabled candidates, like Biden and Fetterman, and on it goes. If you want more of what you've gotten in the past two years, by all means vote a straight democratic ticket.
And when the Confederates saw Jackson standing fearless like a stonewall, the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
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Kishkumen
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Re: Will the Republic as we know it end?

Post by Kishkumen »

ajax18 wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 4:54 pm
The issue for most voters is and should be what the economic results of a Democrat controlled House, Senate, and presidency are right now. You have to win the battle before we argue about which deity to credit it to. Right now America is losing on inflation, the stock market, the economy, COVID policy, school closures, oil/gasoline prices, energy independence, the southern border, inner city crime/defund the police, America's international sphere of influence/Russia, disabled candidates, like Biden and Fetterman, and on it goes. If you want more of what you've gotten in the past two years, by all means vote a straight democratic ticket.
So, our system of government doesn't matter so long as the price at the pump makes you feel more relaxed.
"It is . . . rare for scholars to comment on the claims of writers like Barker, for the simple reason that they are generally too ill informed . . . to spend time that might be employed more usefully in engaging people who actually know what they are talking about." ~Ron Huggins
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Moksha
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Re: Will the Republic as we know it end?

Post by Moksha »

MAGAdom will be the fulfillment of both Charles Lindberg's and Stonewall Jackson's vision of the future.
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Re: Will the Republic as we know it end?

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Nolte: Biden Says Midterms Could ‘Easily Be Illegitimate,’ Then Blasts Election Deniers

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United States President Joe Biden gives remarks on preserving democracy ahead of the midterm elections at a DNC rally on November 2nd, 2022 at Union Station in Washington, D.C., United States on November 02, 2022. (Photo by Nathan Posner/Anadolu Agency via Getty Images)
His Fraudulency Joe Biden raged against election deniers on Wednesday. You know, how they are a threat to our democracy and all that. And yet, this comes after Biden told the country the 2022 midterm elections could “easily be illegitimate.”

During his Wednesday night speech, Joe Biden, who is a proven racist and has been credibly accused of sexual assault, said the following:

As I stand here today, there are candidates running for every level of office in America. For governor, Congress, attorney general, secretary of state, who won’t commit, that will not commit to accepting the results of the election that they’re running in. This is a path to chaos in America. It’s unprecedented. It’s unlawful, and it’s un-American.



I hope you’ll ask a simple question of each candidate you might vote for. Will that person accept the legitimate will of the American people and the people voting in his district or her district? Will that person accept the outcome of the election, win or lose? The answer to that question is vital. And, in my opinion, it should be decisive. And the answer to that question hangs in the future of the country we love so much, and the fate of the democracy that has made so much possible for us.

“It’s unprecedented.”

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA This.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA This.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA This.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA This. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA This.

Oh, and let’s not forget Biden’s very own press secretary:
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Let’s Go, Brandon, indeed.

And then there’s — Are you ready? I hope you’re ready. Stand back for a shocker… This right here, baby… Straight from the WhiteHousedotgov website:

MEDIA QUESTION: A moment ago, you were asked whether or not you believed that we would have free and fair elections in 2022 if some of these state legislatures reformed their voting protocols. You said that it depends. Do you — do you think that they would in any way be illegitimate?

BIDEN: Oh, yeah, I think it easily could be — be illegitimate. … I mean, imagine if those attempts to say that the count was not legit. You have to recount it and we’re not going to count — we’re going to discard the following votes. I mean, sure, but — I’m not going to say it’s going to be legit. It’s — the increase and the prospect of being illegitimate is in direct proportion to us not being able to get these — these reforms passed.


In other words, Biden is saying that if his fascist and unconstitutional voting reform laws fail to pass, the 2022 midterm election is illegitimate.

Well.

Biden’s fascist and unconstitutional voting reform laws did not pass.

And.

Biden has not retracted this statement.


So.

Biden will not accept the results of next week’s election.

So.

Biden is an election denier.

Which means…

According to his own definition, Biden is a danger to democracy.

But we already knew that.

The election denial we see from Democrats and the corporate media after next week’s election will be breathtaking … and glorious.


https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022 ... n-deniers/
Last edited by Hawkeye on Thu Nov 03, 2022 6:50 pm, edited 4 times in total.
The best part about this is waiting four years to see how all the crazy apocalyptic predictions made by the fear mongering idiots in Right Wing media turned out to be painfully wrong...Gasoline would hit $10/gallon. Hyperinflation would ensue.
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Re: Will the Republic as we know it end?

Post by Vēritās »

Three proud boys just became poll workers in Miami. Gee, what could go wrong?

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/miami-da ... 5OmNetEFXM
"I am not an American ... In my view premarital sex should be illegal ...(there are) mentally challenged people with special needs like myself- Ajax18
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Re: Will the Republic as we know it end?

Post by Vēritās »

Some morons need to understand the difference between 1. baselessly claiming an election was stolen via conspiratorial means that have all been debunked, and 2. pointing out the ways in which elections were illegitimate because voters were prevented from voting.

The fact is Brian Kemp effectively prevented more than 340,000 Georgians from having their vote counted, and the conflict of interest was obvious when he was running for Governor while acting as Secretary of State, refusing to recuse himself despite the obvious conflict. He had control to manipulate the system that would ultimately get him elected, and he later admitted that was the whole purpose for the Bill. To help him win an election he won by only 50,000 votes.
In case you missed it, during the final GOP gubernatorial debate, Brian Kemp “accidentally told the truth” about why he signed SB 202, one of the most egregious voter suppression laws in the country: he was “frustrated…with the results” of the 2020 election.

When discussing the 2020 election during the debate, Kemp said, “I was as frustrated as anyone else with the results, especially at the federal level. And we did something about it with Senate Bill 202.”

As MSNBC notes: “When the governor boasted over the weekend about approving Senate Bill 202 because of his frustration with election results, he was making clear that Georgia Republicans made it harder to vote in 2021 because they didn’t like losing in 2020.”

SB 202 made numerous changes making it more difficult for Georgians to cast a ballot and have it counted — including shortening the window during which voters can request and return an absentee ballot, drastically reducing the number of ballot drop boxes and eliminating hundreds of hours of drop box availability, making it much harder to vote by provisional ballot, and making it a crime for volunteers to hand out a bottle of water or snack to voters waiting in long lines..
Biden's remarks about potential illegitimacy of the midterms were made back in January because he was pushing for a bill on Voter Rights Reform. His point was obvious to anyone with a brain and to those who understand the simple fact that Republicans have been suppressing votes throughout the country, and they're electing dozens and dozens of election deniers to help overturn any election result they don't like.

Only the dumbest and most dishonest people would try to equate anything Biden has said to what Trump and his little army of election denying morons have done and continue to do.
"I am not an American ... In my view premarital sex should be illegal ...(there are) mentally challenged people with special needs like myself- Ajax18
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Gadianton
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Re: Will the Republic as we know it end?

Post by Gadianton »

ajax18 wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 4:54 pm
The issue for most voters is and should be what the economic results of a Democrat controlled House, Senate, and presidency are right now. You have to win the battle before we argue about which deity to credit it to. Right now America is losing on inflation, the stock market, the economy, COVID policy, school closures, oil/gasoline prices, energy independence, the southern border, inner city crime/defund the police, America's international sphere of influence/Russia, disabled candidates, like Biden and Fetterman, and on it goes. If you want more of what you've gotten in the past two years, by all means vote a straight democratic ticket.
that's not true. You don't know anything about economics and can never hold your own on this topic, but yet you beat the drum persistently. It's only a convenient talking point, and not something you have the slightest interest in exploring with any depth. You're an extremist willing to put up with a terrible economy under right-wing leaders if only they validate your deeper racial prejudices.

You know zero, zilch about economics, Ajax, and you care zero, zilch about learning anything.
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