Will the Republic as we know it end?

[Vēritās]

Why are Ajax and Hawkeye posting together on this thread? I thought there was a push to limit posters and their sock puppets on the same thread.

He does this because he obviously has a mental disorder.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

You’re probably the most retarded adult I’ve ever seen post on the Internet.

- Doc

Perhaps it's a communist style democracy where you're free to vote for the communist party candidate or not vote. What's odd about this line of attack is that it's conservatives who defend the form of government laid down in the Constitution. It's liberals who disparage the founding fathers as racist slaveowners in their effort to see the Constitution discarded and overturned. That's the fundamental transformation of America they're talking about.

“I’m Xanax. I just say stuff. Mmmblegh.”

- Doc

[canpakes]

You’re probably the most retarded adult I’ve ever seen post on the Internet.

- Doc

Perhaps it's a communist style democracy where you're free to vote for the communist party candidate or not vote. What's odd about this line of attack is that it's conservatives who defend the form of government laid down in the Constitution. It's liberals who disparage the founding fathers as racist slaveowners in their effort to see the Constitution discarded and overturned. That's the fundamental transformation of America they're talking about.

Moral conclusions and ‘presentism’ aside, would it have been possible to be a slaveholder without being racist, in terms of the word’s strict definition?

Also, I noted a distinct lack of ‘liberals’ as opposed to conservatives trying to break into the Capitol building on January 6, while beating on law enforcement as they raged. Funny thing, that.

[High Spy]

The issue for most voters is and should be what the economic results of a Democrat controlled House, Senate, and presidency are right now. You have to win the battle before we argue about which deity to credit it to. Right now America is losing on inflation, the stock market, the economy, COVID policy, school closures, oil/gasoline prices, energy independence, the southern border, inner city crime/defund the police, America's international sphere of influence/Russia, disabled candidates, like Biden and Fetterman, and on it goes. If you want more of what you've gotten in the past two years, by all means vote a straight democratic ticket.

Fortunately for a select few the Davidic Servant is a known entity that may soon stand.

[Gunnar]

You know zero, zilch about economics, Ajax, and you care zero, zilch about learning anything.

Yup! That describes Ajax to a T.

[Gunnar]

The issue for most voters is and should be what the economic results of a Democrat controlled House, Senate, and presidency are right now. You have to win the battle before we argue about which deity to credit it to. Right now America is losing on inflation, the stock market, the economy, COVID policy, school closures, oil/gasoline prices, energy independence, the southern border, inner city crime/defund the police, America's international sphere of influence/Russia, disabled candidates, like Biden and Fetterman, and on it goes. If you want more of what you've gotten in the past two years, by all means vote a straight democratic ticket.

Like it or not, ajax, there is practically zero credible evidence that the 2020 election was illegally rigged or stolen from Trump. Even Trump's own appointed election officials and judges have admitted that! On the other hand, there is more than adequate evidence that Republican elected officials are doing their darnedest to suppress voting and purge the voting roles of any, especially non-whites and other minorities, who are not likely to vote Republican. They hardly even try to hide that fact! Some of them have even been heard to openly, proudly and gleefully admit it, at least to their fellow Republicans! Thus we can be sure that when Republicans accuse Democrats of trying to cheat and rig elections in their favor, it is nothing but pure projection!

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

You’re probably the most retarded adult I’ve ever seen post on the Internet.

- Doc

Perhaps it's a communist style democracy where you're free to vote for the communist party candidate or not vote. What's odd about this line of attack is that it's conservatives who defend the form of government laid down in the Constitution. It's liberals who disparage the founding fathers as racist slaveowners in their effort to see the Constitution discarded and overturned. That's the fundamental transformation of America they're talking about.

Xanax is a fascist and doesn't believe in a democracy unless it's a one-party system and you're a party member. He betrays himself over and over again with regard to reading this board and its exchanges - ie, he doesn't. He just does a quick skim and craps out some nonsense because today he's feeling particularly cagey about his crap life. Funny how the Party of Personal Responsibility always ends up blaming others for their own misery.

Ironic. Xanax blathers on about saving the Constitution while supporting an insurrection and the attempted Republican election theft. He blathers on about communists while being a literal fascist. He blathers on and on and on while having literally zero factual understanding about the very thing he’s blathering on about. This [FR1 -cp-] would hand this country over to Putin before seeing a Democrat in office. He’s an impenetrable fortress of stupidity and doggedly determined ignorance. It’d be kind of amazing if it weren’t existentially threatening to our democracy.

- Doc

[Some Schmo]

Ironic. Xanax blathers on about saving the Constitution while supporting an insurrection and the attempted Republican election theft. He blathers on about communists while being a literal fascist. He blathers on and on and on while having literally zero factual understanding about the very thing he’s blathering on about. This [FR1 -cp-] would hand this country over to Putin before seeing a Democrat in office. He’s an impenetrable fortress of stupidity and doggedly determined ignorance. It’d be kind of amazing if it weren’t existentially threatening to our democracy.

Yep. You just described every member of the MAGA cult. He is emblematic of the idiocy that is racist sentiment. You thought Scientology was retarded; they've got nothing on the thought void that is the MAGA cult.

Seriously, has anyone ever met a smart racist? I've never heard any of them say anything that wasn't complete nonsense and betrayed how poorly their addled brain "worked." It makes sense; racist sentiment can only work on complete morons.

[Kishkumen]

Thank you for the thoughtful opening post, Kishkumen. I hadn't heard that take on Constantine, though I think about Constantine's affirmation of an underdog religion. Not that I know that much about it, of course.

Anyway, curious what you and others think about this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfSv9DGtv6Y

I'm a sorta fan of Peter Z's since I've discovered him at the beginning of the war. I do think he's a loose canon at times, but what I credit him for is identifying important issues. He provides great starting points.

In this short segment, he bashes Obama and blames Obama for Trump. Is he right or wrong?

I never cared one way or another about Obama, didn't think he was good or bad, but I don't follow politics; mainly this board, and I hone in on certain issues as necessary. I think the case he makes here is an interesting one, but I also think he has a track record of glossing over ideas that are pretty good. And I wonder how many presidents really have had the large org background to be "managers" -- Biden obviously does. Reagan? Bush 1/2?

Thank you for posting this video, Dean Robbers. I was not aware of Peter Z. Perhaps I need to watch more of his videos.

OK, so, would I agree with Peter Z when he says that Obama is responsible for Trump? In a sense, sure.

Of course, this is a very short video that makes a very specific kind of point:

The disconnect between Obama and the government is directly responsible for the disenchantment a lot of Americans feel with government in general and that led directly to the rise of the next guy.

On its face, his formulation is making a lot of huge leaps. I agree that Obama was somewhat disappointing on a number of fronts. His stimulus package was too small. He was a pretty poor negotiator, and he did not do political communication with people in Congress, his cabinet, etc., behind the scenes.

If Peter Z spent more time on his analysis, would he make an argument that Obama's weakness in communication led to the GOP's mindless opposition to everything Obama tried to do? Perhaps he would.

What would he have to say about the fact that George W. Bush had to rely heavily on others because he was poorly prepared to be president in the first place? And in a situation where he needed a community and seems to have used the one he had, his administration often left posts unstaffed, as though they did not matter?

One might also point to GOP opposition to Clinton and Newt Gingrich's trailblazing tactics of relentless attack. Could we not point to Gingrich modeling the kind of caustic rhetoric and take-no-prisoners political war that ultimately found its way into the White House in Trump's "leadership" style?

I guess what I am saying is that Obama was a B president, or maybe a B-, but I am not seeing how his flawed leadership style led to Trump. Trump is the culmination of a lot of trends on both sides of the duopoly. Yes, people who tend to vote Republican do not like DNC technocrats. They also respond poorly to the penitential gluttony of identity politics wherein we constantly bemoan how evil our civilization is. Dems occupy a kind of ivory tower in which they speak down to the people, spend a fair amount of time insulting popular targets (the hillbillies and religious zealots), and forget it takes in-person campaigning to cultivate votes.

But the GOP embraced an exaggerated antithesis of this in Trump, and one who neither understood nor cared for governing at all. And this is where I actually find Peter Z's analysis to be insidiously dangerous.

It is one thing to point out that Obama had certain weaknesses when it came to his management style, but we would be hard pressed, if not find it impossible, to draw a straight line from that to the election of a man who was almost completely unfit in every way to occupy the Oval Office. I think it is entirely fair to say that, since the late 1970s, the GOP in particular has put less and less stock in the value of the presidency as anything other than a tool of America's business elite in the charge to dismantle government. At every turn we have seen relentless disdain for the idea of governing from one party: the GOP.

So it seems like a dirty trick, and could be disingenuous, dishonest, or at best highly unreflective, to neglect that long track record of negligence or hostility toward statesmanship on the Right and lay the blame on Obama. I am leaning in the direction of disingenuous because of other loaded language in Z's take on Obama. According to Z, Obama hadn't had a "big-boy job" before being elected president. Well, kiss my ass, former analyst Peter Z. Being a law professor and a senator of the US are two "big-boy" jobs.

So he reveals his biases very clearly, and I would say his views are symptomatic of some of the larger problems we have as a culture. For too long we have confused our macho, greed-is-good business culture with a political philosophy. Hell, it isn't even really capitalism. It is a Freudian wet dream of economic libertinism run amok. But, within this grab bag of vague notions about American manliness and adulthood, a person of real standing and competence is the one who has, what?, managed a lot of people in a business?

Well, who does that leave us with for people fit to be president?

Not Ronald Reagan. Not George W. Bush. Not really Mitt Romney, who is more of a pencil pusher in the ruthless game of ripping apart the carcasses of businesses to sell piecemeal. Definitely not Donnie Trump, the phony real estate mogul who makes money, where he can, by fooling big banks into floating him with giant loans and selling his brand.

But, to get to the crux of the matter, I really have to question his assumptions about what it takes to make a good president, and on the finer points of how it is that Obama can be blamed for Trump.

I think Democrats and Republicans marching together toward oblivion can be blamed for Trump. It's not just Obama, although he certainly did not help in some regards.

[huckelberry]

Obama may have been unable to manipulate a hostile Congress and was not perfect. I view him as one of the better presidents in my lifetime. Did he cause Trump? Of course . There are enough American who did not say it, may have been somewhat unaware of thinking it, but nevertheless felt something like this. Oh my god a black president the country is going down the drain we need a truly white guy who is a macho business boss guy.