Dr Exiled wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 4:36 pm
The above isn't an insurrection, although the Jan 6 committee really tried to sell that hard and even hired a TV director to make it look more menacing. Protests, even misguided ones, aren't an insurrection, unless disagreement is somehow morphed into something different.
I’d like to see more of an argument from you along those lines as opposed to simple assertion. It seems plausible to define what happened as in insurrection, weak as it may have been:
“Rebellion, uprising, or insurrection is a refusal of obedience or order. It refers to the open resistance against the orders of an established authority.
A rebellion originates from a sentiment of indignation and disapproval of a situation and then manifests itself by the refusal to submit or to obey the authority responsible for this situation. Rebellion can be individual or collective, peaceful (civil disobedience, civil resistance, and nonviolent resistance) or violent (terrorism, sabotage and guerrilla warfare).” - - Wikipedia, everyone’s favorite quick’n’lazy armchair source for stuff
However, there were definitely violent clashes with police and that should be condemned. Sure, there is a continuum regarding behavior, but, as you point out, the protesters left eventually. There clearly wasn't a plan to take over the government. And afterward, Biden was officially elected by the electoral college. The constitution worked. There wasn't a plan by Trump to become a dictator or to remain in office. Trump left. He left kicking and screaming, but left nonetheless.
I don’t see that having a viable or proven plan to complete a takeover of power as part of the definition. Nevertheless, some groups appeared to have equipped themselves for a more serious outcome other than mere tourism. Do you disagree?
So, some of the questions I have are why did the capitol police let some of the protesters through?
Plausible reasons are given above. Think about how you would have reacted in the same situation.
Who opened the big doors from the inside?
Protesters. : D
Were there FBI informants mixed in the crowd?(the FBI director won't answer this question and some criminal defense attorneys were just informed, late, that there were FBI informants in the Proud Boys and another of the groups that were part of Jan 6)
What if there are FBI informants that infiltrated the Proud Boys, and then - to take that a step farther - were with that group on Jan 6? What conclusion does that lead to, for you? That they drove that group’s ideology and planning for that day? Or that they could have acted to help stop any action of the Proud Boys should they have taken things too far?
Infiltrating a group does not imply that the infiltrators are running the group. Do you disagree?
Why the refusal to have more security as Trump claims to have asked Nancy Pelosi to do?
I’m pretty sure that question has already been discussed a few times here. You’ll either accept what has been presented, or continue to ask that question as if to imply something.
Regardless, the question does not address the intent of the crowd, or change whether or not that crowd- or Trump - participated in an insurrection, right?