Moved: The Next Mormonism May Very Well Be Liberalism

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Res Ipsa
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Re: Moved: The Next Mormonism May Very Well Be Liberalism

Post by Res Ipsa »

As long as the low-energy trolling continues, I might as well enjoy it. Let's start here:
The Blm [sic] movement is my second example of liberalism potentially capitalising on the cult-like characteristics of Mormonism.
You can't give a second example before you give a first example. This is a form of denial that dovetails with gaslighting. Remember, here was the first "example":
This is an article by Steven Hassan that explains how left-wing cults trick people into believing crazy ideologies that are often rooted in marxism. Very impressive and very worrying.

***

I linked to an article written by a liberal hero who acknowledged that liberalism has cult-like tendencies just like conservatism and Mormonism.
These two statements are not only false, they completely misrepresent what Hassan's blog post actually says. By failing to acknowledge his past misrepresentation (denial) and asserting that he has provided a first example when, in fact, all he has done is blatantly misrepresented his only source (gaslighting), we again see the classic elements of trolling: never acknowledge error and when caught misrepresenting facts, change the subject and pretend you were right all along.

Now, we're presented with what purports to be a personal anecdote. It's a safe tactic -- nothing to fact check. As tempting as it might be to dismiss the anecdote because we've already seen that we have an unreliable narrator, I suggest using the principle of generosity and take the story at face value. If we do, the low energy nature of the trolling almost jumps out of the page. The conclusions drawn reflect a complete absence of effort or interest in trying to understand why a BLM rally might resemble a religious service in some ways.

All it takes to understand why the narrator saw a resemblance is to expend minimal efforts on the internet. Just Google "Civil Rights Religion" for enough information to clearly show that the Civil Rights movement was a much a religious movement as it was a political movement. Note the involvement of clergy and religious organizations, not only from historically black Christian churches, but from other denominations and faith traditions. Religion is in the DNA of the civil rights movement in a way that I don't think has an equivalent in the U.S. That is the culture and tradition in which BLM is grounded. Again, for a minimal investment of time on the internet, anyone can observe the intertwined relationship of BLM and religion.

But, beyond that, the religious culture of black, protestant congregations is completely unlike the Mormon culture that our narrator says they are a part of. I've attended a couple of services at an AME church in my area a couple of times. It in no way resembled any experience I'd had in Mormonism. It reminded more of descriptions of an old-time revival meeting than anything else. It was a good reminder to me that the religious culture I grew up in was very different from other religious cultures.

But such is the nature of low-effort trolling. Our narrator clearly has one hammer, and he simply assumes everything is a nail. Anyone with the slightest curiosity would have made some effort to try and understand why they had seen what they saw. But the point of low effort trolling is to get the most bang (emotional response) for the buck (time invested). Those who troll in this manner aren't interested in learning anything because they already know the answers.
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Some Schmo
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Re: The Next Mormonism May Very Well Be Liberalism

Post by Some Schmo »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:01 pm
You started off with a stunning own goal of an argument that religious believers sometimes make: X (a secular ideology, political position, or conclusion based on science that the poster disagrees with) is a religion. The argument can work only if religion is a bad thing, and adherents of religion sects don't believe that religion is bad.
It is ironic that the religious sometimes make this argument, but my sense is that they don't think religion is bad, just that secularism/humanism is as provable as religion is.

They're wrong, of course, but I see it as more an "well, nobody knows what's really true, so I believe religion" sort of attitude.

It's yet another example of religion making people dumber than they'd be without it.
Religion is for people whose existential fear is greater than their common sense.

The god idea is popular with desperate people.
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canpakes
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Re: Moved: The Next Mormonism May Very Well Be Liberalism

Post by canpakes »

I suggest an edit …
Res Ipsa wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:27 pm
Those who troll in this manner aren't interested in learning anything because they believe that they already know the answers.
Gunnar
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Re: Moved: The Next Mormonism May Very Well Be Liberalism

Post by Gunnar »

canpakes wrote:
Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:40 am
I suggest an edit …
Res Ipsa wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:27 pm
Those who troll in this manner aren't interested in learning anything because they believe that they already know the answers.
I suspect that they would readily and cheerfully admit that they are indeed convinced that they already know the answers and are dismissive of anyone who has the gall to challenge them on that conviction.
No precept or claim is more suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
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Res Ipsa
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Re: Moved: The Next Mormonism May Very Well Be Liberalism

Post by Res Ipsa »

canpakes wrote:
Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:40 am
I suggest an edit …
Res Ipsa wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:27 pm
Those who troll in this manner aren't interested in learning anything because they believe that they already know the answers.
How about "they 'know' the answer"?
he/him
When I go to sea, don’t fear for me. Fear for the storm.

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canpakes
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Re: Moved: The Next Mormonism May Very Well Be Liberalism

Post by canpakes »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Wed Nov 30, 2022 3:35 pm
canpakes wrote:
Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:40 am
I suggest an edit …

How about "they 'know' the answer"?
Ooh, more concise. Works beautifully!
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