The Next Mormonism May Very Well Be Liberalism

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Res Ipsa
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Re: Moved: The Next Mormonism May Very Well Be Liberalism

Post by Res Ipsa »

As long as the low-energy trolling continues, I might as well enjoy it. Let's start here:
The Blm [sic] movement is my second example of liberalism potentially capitalising on the cult-like characteristics of Mormonism.
You can't give a second example before you give a first example. This is a form of denial that dovetails with gaslighting. Remember, here was the first "example":
This is an article by Steven Hassan that explains how left-wing cults trick people into believing crazy ideologies that are often rooted in marxism. Very impressive and very worrying.

***

I linked to an article written by a liberal hero who acknowledged that liberalism has cult-like tendencies just like conservatism and Mormonism.
These two statements are not only false, they completely misrepresent what Hassan's blog post actually says. By failing to acknowledge his past misrepresentation (denial) and asserting that he has provided a first example when, in fact, all he has done is blatantly misrepresented his only source (gaslighting), we again see the classic elements of trolling: never acknowledge error and when caught misrepresenting facts, change the subject and pretend you were right all along.

Now, we're presented with what purports to be a personal anecdote. It's a safe tactic -- nothing to fact check. As tempting as it might be to dismiss the anecdote because we've already seen that we have an unreliable narrator, I suggest using the principle of generosity and take the story at face value. If we do, the low energy nature of the trolling almost jumps out of the page. The conclusions drawn reflect a complete absence of effort or interest in trying to understand why a BLM rally might resemble a religious service in some ways.

All it takes to understand why the narrator saw a resemblance is to expend minimal efforts on the internet. Just Google "Civil Rights Religion" for enough information to clearly show that the Civil Rights movement was a much a religious movement as it was a political movement. Note the involvement of clergy and religious organizations, not only from historically black Christian churches, but from other denominations and faith traditions. Religion is in the DNA of the civil rights movement in a way that I don't think has an equivalent in the U.S. That is the culture and tradition in which BLM is grounded. Again, for a minimal investment of time on the internet, anyone can observe the intertwined relationship of BLM and religion.

But, beyond that, the religious culture of black, protestant congregations is completely unlike the Mormon culture that our narrator says they are a part of. I've attended a couple of services at an AME church in my area a couple of times. It in no way resembled any experience I'd had in Mormonism. It reminded more of descriptions of an old-time revival meeting than anything else. It was a good reminder to me that the religious culture I grew up in was very different from other religious cultures.

But such is the nature of low-effort trolling. Our narrator clearly has one hammer, and he simply assumes everything is a nail. Anyone with the slightest curiosity would have made some effort to try and understand why they had seen what they saw. But the point of low effort trolling is to get the most bang (emotional response) for the buck (time invested). Those who troll in this manner aren't interested in learning anything because they already know the answers.
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Some Schmo
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Re: The Next Mormonism May Very Well Be Liberalism

Post by Some Schmo »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:01 pm
You started off with a stunning own goal of an argument that religious believers sometimes make: X (a secular ideology, political position, or conclusion based on science that the poster disagrees with) is a religion. The argument can work only if religion is a bad thing, and adherents of religion sects don't believe that religion is bad.
It is ironic that the religious sometimes make this argument, but my sense is that they don't think religion is bad, just that secularism/humanism is as provable as religion is.

They're wrong, of course, but I see it as more an "well, nobody knows what's really true, so I believe religion" sort of attitude.

It's yet another example of religion making people dumber than they'd be without it.
Religion is for people whose existential fear is greater than their common sense.

The god idea is popular with desperate people.
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Re: Moved: The Next Mormonism May Very Well Be Liberalism

Post by canpakes »

I suggest an edit …
Res Ipsa wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:27 pm
Those who troll in this manner aren't interested in learning anything because they believe that they already know the answers.
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Re: Moved: The Next Mormonism May Very Well Be Liberalism

Post by Gunnar »

canpakes wrote:
Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:40 am
I suggest an edit …
Res Ipsa wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:27 pm
Those who troll in this manner aren't interested in learning anything because they believe that they already know the answers.
I suspect that they would readily and cheerfully admit that they are indeed convinced that they already know the answers and are dismissive of anyone who has the gall to challenge them on that conviction.
No precept or claim is more suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
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Res Ipsa
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Re: Moved: The Next Mormonism May Very Well Be Liberalism

Post by Res Ipsa »

canpakes wrote:
Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:40 am
I suggest an edit …
Res Ipsa wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:27 pm
Those who troll in this manner aren't interested in learning anything because they believe that they already know the answers.
How about "they 'know' the answer"?
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canpakes
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Re: Moved: The Next Mormonism May Very Well Be Liberalism

Post by canpakes »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Wed Nov 30, 2022 3:35 pm
canpakes wrote:
Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:40 am
I suggest an edit …

How about "they 'know' the answer"?
Ooh, more concise. Works beautifully!
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Re: The Next Mormonism May Very Well Be Liberalism

Post by huckelberry »

huckelberry wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:26 pm
Wallaby Lover wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:18 pm
BLM propagates Cultural Marxism which downplays individual accountability and maintains that some races are good and others are bad. They propagate a victimisation gospel that supplants optimism with despondency.
This cultural marxism is not something that actually exists on the left it is a story created by the right and Fox news to scare people.

There exists a couple of fringe religious movements such as Black Muslim which view whites as evil but they also emphasize individual responsibility for black people.

Jordan Peterson uses a phrase which explains how a person continues attached to misunderstanding like these, ideologically possessed. He correctly notes the problem can exist on both the right and the left.
Something sent me back to this old thread which reminded me of Hound. The collection of presented ideas by Hound are much the same but the writing style is quite different. Either way Hounds lack of interest in exploring other people's ideas sticking only to his favorite tune is like Wallaby Lover. The tune is the same with the addition of the word progressive.

I have mixed feelings about Jordan Peterson but I think he has made some good statements. The phrase ideologically possessed is one.
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Re: The Next Mormonism May Very Well Be Liberalism

Post by Some Schmo »

huckelberry wrote:
Tue Oct 21, 2025 5:16 pm
Something sent me back to this old thread which reminded me of Hound.
I don't recall this thread at all (rereading it, I was surprised to find I'd posted in it three years ago), so I'm glad you brought it back. RI's analysis here is awesome.
Religion is for people whose existential fear is greater than their common sense.

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canpakes
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Re: The Next Mormonism May Very Well Be Liberalism

Post by canpakes »

huckelberry wrote:
Tue Oct 21, 2025 5:16 pm
Something sent me back to this old thread which reminded me of Hound.
There’s a really good reason for that. ‘Wallaby Lover’ was also an AtlanticMike sock.
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Re: The Next Mormonism May Very Well Be Liberalism

Post by Whiskey »

Kishkumen wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2022 4:23 pm
Res Ipsa wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2022 4:04 pm
I am a religious believer. A political ideology I disagree with is bad because it is a religion.

I subscribe to a political ideology that has relentlessly demonized an ideology I disagree with for decades. They are bad because they call people names. Name calling is religion.

It's okay to be racist. It's bad to call something racist.
It's okay to be homophobic. It's bad to call something homophobic.
It's okay to be transphobic. It's bad to call something transphobic.
It's okay to be misogynistic. It's bad to call something misogynistic.
It's okay to deny facts. It's bad to call someone a denier.

After decades of calling members of a political ideology names, I am offended at people calling me names.
Nailed it!
Interesting. Very, very, very interesting. The entire “nailed it” routine collapses under one missing detail -the assumption that every accusation is true. That every charge of racism, phobia, or denialism or nazi ass fascism is righteous and precise. That the label itself is proof.

That’s not truth. That’s lazy theology dressed as reason. Because once the accusation becomes sacred, facts become heresy, to continue with the down under lover's theme. It’s no longer about whether someone is racist or transphobic or whatever word the mob chants today ,- it’s about whether the label feels good to say.

And when every disagreement is sin, there’s no room left for dialogue, only excommunication. That’s religion and its the kind that still burns heretics. Take it further. Is wrongfully calling someone racist, racist?
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