Wondering about Atheist Programs for Children

[Marcus]

Kevin,

I know you’re catching a little flack right now, but I’m curious enough about your lived experience to inquiry as follows:

1) How much of your life have you lived outside of the Utah bubble? My apologies if you’ve talked about this before and I missed it.

2) Historically, how would you describe your access to a variety of people from different, non-LDS, backgrounds? Like, in your personal and professional lives, what would be the percentage, more or less, of non-LDS people in your life where you got to know and spend time with them on a fairly deep level (enough to know of their views, hopes n’ dreams, perspectives, etc)?

- Doc

Good questions, I would be interested in these answers as well, given the way the op was structured.

[Marcus]

If you had asked, "Do gay parents have programs like this for their young children?" might that have been considered either hopelessly stupid or despairingly bigoted?

Yes. I'm kind of leaning towards hopelessly stupid.

And if that's the case, wouldn't it be just as bad if you asked a similar question about atheists?

Not at all. There's no good reason to think gay parents have any ideological differences with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. There is, on the other hand, some reason to expect that atheist parents have ideological differences with that church.

Really? Could you explain more about this reasoning? Specifically, what is your reasoning to support that “gay parents [don’t] have any ideological differences with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,” but that “atheist parents [do] have ideological differences with that church” ?

[KevinSim]

1) How much of your life have you lived outside of the Utah bubble? My apologies if you’ve talked about this before and I missed it.

I was born in Seattle, Washington, in 1959. I was a Latter-day Saint missionary in Chile for 14 months from 1979 to 1980; other than that I lived in Seattle from my birth until 1995. I lived in the Dallas Texas Metroplex from 1995 to 2004. I've lived in Utah since 2004. So I've been in that bubble for a little over 18 years, two years in Spanish Fork and sixteen years in Springville. But you could also say the first 23 years of my life, the time I spent living in my parents' house, was a little bit of a bubble itself; my mother made it into one.

2) Historically, how would you describe your access to a variety of people from different, non-LDS, backgrounds? HiLike, in your personal and professional lives, what would be the percentage, more or less, of non-LDS people in your life where you got to know and spend time with them on a fairly deep level (enough to know of their views, hopes n’ dreams, perspectives, etc)?

I've had a lot of access to non-LDS people, university professors, fellow students, co-workers, but not on the level of finding out their hopes and dreams. I'm high functioning autistic, so I've always had trouble getting to know people at that level.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Ah. Thanks for answering my questions - although on question #2 I kind of wonder if you’ve been culturally cloistered away, so to speak. Whatever the case may be, growing up in the Seattle area and then living in the Dallas metroplex should’ve provided a fairly cosmopolitan experience.

On a side note, I grew up in Spokane and loved going to Seattle with family and then friends - I was into the 90’s grunge scene and saw PJ, Screaming Trees, Alice in Chains, and Soundgarden at the Moore and one other venue that I forget the name.

- Doc

[canpakes]

In the context of your opening question, tell me what you mean by, ‘productive’.

Canpakes, I'm pretty sure I meant anything that isn't destructive. Perhaps I could have used better words, but that is what I meant.

That depends on what you mean by ‘destructive’. Have you ever given some kind of gadget and a few tools to a child so that they could pull it apart and see what makes it work?

But, I know what you’re getting at with ‘destructive’. : D

More to the point from my previous question, ‘productive’ implies a particular outcome, maybe with respect to a particular subject or belief. Simple play is ‘productive’ in how it builds social skills, cooperative behaviors and problem solving ability. That’s why I was curious if you had something more specific in mind with use of that word.

[Res Ipsa]

Ah. Thanks for answering my questions - although on question #2 I kind of wonder if you’ve been culturally cloistered away, so to speak. Whatever the case may be, growing up in the Seattle area and then living in the Dallas metroplex should’ve provided a fairly cosmopolitan experience.

On a side note, I grew up in Spokane and loved going to Seattle with family and then friends - I was into the 90’s grunge scene and saw PJ, Screaming Trees, Alice in Chains, and Soundgarden at the Moore and one other venue that I forget the name.

- Doc

Paramount?

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Ah. Thanks for answering my questions - although on question #2 I kind of wonder if you’ve been culturally cloistered away, so to speak. Whatever the case may be, growing up in the Seattle area and then living in the Dallas metroplex should’ve provided a fairly cosmopolitan experience.

On a side note, I grew up in Spokane and loved going to Seattle with family and then friends - I was into the 90’s grunge scene and saw PJ, Screaming Trees, Alice in Chains, and Soundgarden at the Moore and one other venue that I forget the name.

- Doc

Paramount?

Is that in the Capitol Hill neighborhood? It was a crappy little place, very intimate, very cool. And I of course felt guilty as a RM for going. I also felt cool. What a weird state of mind to be in as Mormon. I also saw them earlier that year in Spokane at a really cool theater called The Met. ‘93 was a pretty good year for music - I was a year and change having come back from my mission, so it was a time of a lot of personal growth (perhaps my nostalgia is more based in that time of life rather than pop culture being meaningful).

- Doc

[Res Ipsa]

Paramount?

Is that in the Capitol Hill neighborhood? It was a crappy little place, very intimate, very cool. And I of course felt guilty as a RM for going. I also felt cool. What a weird state of mind to be in as Mormon. I also saw them earlier that year in Spokane at a really cool theater called The Met. ‘93 was a pretty good year for music - I was a year and change having come back from my mission, so it was a time of a lot of personal growth (perhaps my nostalgia is more based in that time of life rather than pop culture being meaningful).

- Doc

Hmm, not the Paramount. There were a few smaller venues like that in the’90s. Only one I can recall is the Crocodile Cafe. Capitol Hill is still fun to hang out, with lots of live music and cool bars. Not a normal venue for RMs. Man, I sure don’t miss that guilt.

[KevinSim]

There's no good reason to think gay parents have any ideological differences with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. There is, on the other hand, some reason to expect that atheist parents have ideological differences with that church.

I made the assumption that an atheist might not want to send her/his children to a Latter-day Saint Activity Days due to ideological differences.

Your opening post had nothing to do with Idealogical differences or atheists attending LDS activities. You're disingenuously adding that now.

Morley, there was nothing explicitly offensive in my OP. In order to find something offensive, a handful of posters had to read between the lines. If they can call my post offensive for things it didn't explicitly say, why can't I defend it with things I didn't explicitly say, but were true nonetheless? What is disingenuous about failing to spell out at the start every tiny reason behind every single statement I made in the OP?
I've got to ask too, why are you trying to pick a fight with me? My OP was an expression of curiosity, nothing less, a simple question about how a group of people fill an important need. The majority of posters gave me answers that satisfied my curiosity. Morley, why do you have to make my OP out to be something far worse than it actually was?

[KevinSim]

There's no good reason to think gay parents have any ideological differences with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. There is, on the other hand, some reason to expect that atheist parents have ideological differences with that church.

Really? Could you explain more about this reasoning? Specifically, what is your reasoning to support that “gay parents [don’t] have any ideological differences with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,” but that “atheist parents [do] have ideological differences with that church” ?

Athiest parents by definition don't believe there exists a deity. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does believe there exists a deity. That looks to me like a pretty significant ideological difference. Marcus, are you of the opinion that that doesn't amount to an ideological difference between atheists and the LDS Church?