GOP pushing national sales tax again

The Off-Topic forum for anything non-LDS related, such as sports or politics. Rated PG through PG-13.
User avatar
Doctor CamNC4Me
God
Posts: 8979
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:04 am

GOP pushing national sales tax again

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

https://www.semafor.com/article/01/18/2 ... -democrats
The idea of a “fair tax” that would replace our current IRS code with a single sales tax was popularized on conservative talk radio in the late 1990s. It has kicked around Washington ever since, popping up in the occasional presidential platform, but never received a vote.

Its current champion in Congress is Georgia Rep. Earl “Buddy” Carter, whose Fair Tax Act would swap out the income, payroll, estate, and corporate levies for a 30% national sales tax. It would also send out “prebate” checks to soften the blow on lower income families, all while abolishing the Internal Revenue Service.
I’m a cynic, so I’m wondering how this benefits billionaires and squeezes the poor and middle class. Anyone have any notions about a national sales tax essentially eliminating other forms of taxation? Too simple? Pie in the sky? A gift for the wealthy?

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
User avatar
Res Ipsa
God
Posts: 9568
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:44 pm
Location: Playing Rabbits

Re: GOP pushing national sales tax again

Post by Res Ipsa »

Sales tax is a highly regressive tax because lower income folks have to spend most of their income on food, shelter, clothing, and medical care. Adopting it in place of all other taxation would redistribute net income upwards.
he/him
When I go to sea, don’t fear for me. Fear for the storm.

Jessica Best, Fear for the Storm. From The Strange Case of the Starship Iris.
User avatar
ajax18
God
Posts: 2717
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:12 pm

Re: GOP pushing national sales tax again

Post by ajax18 »

It makes the cost of living expensive enough for illegal immigrants that they self deport.
And when the Confederates saw Jackson standing fearless like a stonewall, the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
Vēritās
God
Posts: 1555
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2022 2:51 am

Re: GOP pushing national sales tax again

Post by Vēritās »

ajax18 wrote:
Thu Jan 19, 2023 1:41 am
It makes the cost of living expensive enough for illegal immigrants that they self deport.

Yes, we know that's the basis for the whole thing. Racism. It overwhelmingly benefits the wealthy and hurts working Americans.
"I am not an American ... In my view premarital sex should be illegal ...(there are) mentally challenged people with special needs like myself- Ajax18
User avatar
Dr. Shades
Founder and Visionary
Posts: 1874
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:48 pm
Contact:

Re: GOP pushing national sales tax again

Post by Dr. Shades »

Vēritās wrote:
Thu Jan 19, 2023 3:53 am
Yes, we know that's the basis for the whole thing. Racism. It overwhelmingly benefits the wealthy and hurts working Americans.
I don't see how, because wealthy people buy things, too.
"It’s ironic that the Church that people claim to be true, puts so much effort into hiding truths."
--I Have Questions, 01-25-2024
Vēritās
God
Posts: 1555
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2022 2:51 am

Re: GOP pushing national sales tax again

Post by Vēritās »

Dr. Shades wrote:
Fri Jan 20, 2023 5:21 am
Vēritās wrote:
Thu Jan 19, 2023 3:53 am
Yes, we know that's the basis for the whole thing. Racism. It overwhelmingly benefits the wealthy and hurts working Americans.
I don't see how, because wealthy people buy things, too.
:lol:

Seriously?

In order for the government to maintain the same amount of revenue with strictly a sales tax the rate would need to be above 30% across the board. So someone making roughly $100,000/year sees a net income spike of roughly 17%. So with a sales tax of 30+% you're talking the same effects of having inflation being more than double what it is now. You know, the thing Republicans have been hyperventilating about for the past year or so.

Those effects are going to be much harder on those making less than $100k.

Meanwhile, those who make $1 million every year will see the same sales tax increase at about the same rate as their suddenly income spike. However those making millions and even billions will see a huge net income gain probably in the 10-20% range.

This of it this way. Roughly 40% of all American households will pay no federal income tax anyway. Why? Because they're poor. Over 70 million Americans. And you want them to pay an extra 30% federal sales tax on all their food and necessities?

This doesn't even take into account the sales taxes implemented already by the states. Given the dramatically reduced consumer spending that would undoubtedly ensue in the event that such a tax were enforced, the tax rate would need to be increased even more just to keep pace with current streams of revenue.

Consumer spending is the lifeline of any economy, and when you tank that, you crash the entire system. Republicans are damned illiterate morons when it comes to the economy. It isn't a coincidence that 10 of the last 11 recessions all happened under Republican administrations.
"I am not an American ... In my view premarital sex should be illegal ...(there are) mentally challenged people with special needs like myself- Ajax18
Vēritās
God
Posts: 1555
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2022 2:51 am

Re: GOP pushing national sales tax again

Post by Vēritās »

ajax18 wrote:
Thu Jan 19, 2023 1:41 am
It makes the cost of living expensive enough for illegal immigrants that they self deport.
According to DT they don't spend the money here anyway, they just send it to Mexico.
"I am not an American ... In my view premarital sex should be illegal ...(there are) mentally challenged people with special needs like myself- Ajax18
Alphus and Omegus
Area Authority
Posts: 603
Joined: Thu May 13, 2021 8:41 pm

Re: GOP pushing national sales tax again

Post by Alphus and Omegus »

Dr. Shades wrote:
Fri Jan 20, 2023 5:21 am
Vēritās wrote:
Thu Jan 19, 2023 3:53 am
Yes, we know that's the basis for the whole thing. Racism. It overwhelmingly benefits the wealthy and hurts working Americans.
I don't see how, because wealthy people buy things, too.
Wealthy people are much more likely not to spend their income, because they don't need to. And to the extent they do part with money, it's as investments, which would be untaxed.

So this bill would overwhelmingly increase taxes on middle income earners while drastically reducing them for the very wealthy. And the idea that the IRS would be abolished is false. Obviously, the federal government would need an agency to collect the sales tax.

The entire idea is a ludicrous fantasy.
User avatar
Moksha
God
Posts: 5810
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:13 am
Location: Koloburbia

Re: GOP pushing national sales tax again

Post by Moksha »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Thu Jan 19, 2023 12:02 am
Too simple? Pie in the sky? A gift for the wealthy?

- Doc
Without understanding the particulars, it would not be a Republican proposal unless it was a gift to the wealthy. When I was young, Mormons were very upfront about why favoritism for the wealthy was to be endorsed: Because the wealthy were more valiant in the pre-existence.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
User avatar
canpakes
God
Posts: 7062
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:25 am

Re: GOP pushing national sales tax again

Post by canpakes »

Dr. Shades wrote:
Fri Jan 20, 2023 5:21 am
Vēritās wrote:
Thu Jan 19, 2023 3:53 am
Yes, we know that's the basis for the whole thing. Racism. It overwhelmingly benefits the wealthy and hurts working Americans.
I don't see how, because wealthy people buy things, too.

One of the main complaints about a national sales tax is that it’s regressive, if not accompanied with serious adjustments for income.

As example - a person earning $5 million dollars a year earns 100 times more than another person earning $50 thousand dollars per year. Does the higher income earner spend 100x the amount of the lower income earner on the following, per year:

- Milk, butter, or other food basics,
- Auto fuel,
- Natural gas, for cooking and heating
- Water and electrical,
- Toilet paper, toothpaste and other toiletries,
- Auto tires,
- Laundry detergent,
- Linens, bedding and clothes basics,
- A pound of coffee, or a package of bacon,
- Cell phone and internet service,
- A six pack of ale or cider from the local microbrewery,
- Refrigerators, washing machines and other appliances,
- Heating fuel … etc. ..?

Is their mortgage, or rent, or automobile cost 100 times greater than the person earning $50K? It would be hard to hit that mark.

How about health insurance? Medical costs? Day care?

Meanwhile, how much more of common infrastructure is required to allow the higher income earner to generate their income and to remain safely ensconced within the lifestyle that they are accustomed, versus folks much farther down the income ladder?
Post Reply