Jordan Peterson

The Off-Topic forum for anything non-LDS related, such as sports or politics. Rated PG through PG-13.
huckelberry
God
Posts: 2578
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:48 pm

Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by huckelberry »

alphus and Omegus, I have wondered about emotional instability on Peterson's part. I am sorry to hear of his rightward slide of the sort you are pointing out.
Alphus and Omegus
Area Authority
Posts: 603
Joined: Thu May 13, 2021 8:41 pm

Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by Alphus and Omegus »

huckelberry wrote:
Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:41 am
alphus and Omegus, I have wondered about emotional instability on Peterson's part. I am sorry to hear of his rightward slide of the sort you are pointing out.
I think there is some value in self-help type books for a lot of people at various points in their lives. But I think that at some point, whether through his physical trauma or being absorbed into the audience's demands for him, Peterson lost the plot. He used to be able to push back occasionally against far-right viewpoints or to stand up for young people who face persecution from religious families.

Probably some part of his behavior also is that he is a direct employee of the Daily Wire, which is owned by two extremist Christian billionaires who are trying to force schools to teach the Bible, pass laws to prosecute as murderers raped women who have abortions. They have many other disturbing beliefs, including that Christians are the real Jews (a common anti-Semitic trope).

https://prospect.org/power/meet-billion ... ous-right/
huckelberry
God
Posts: 2578
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:48 pm

Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by huckelberry »

Alphus and Omegus wrote:
Tue Mar 21, 2023 6:00 am
huckelberry wrote:
Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:41 am
alphus and Omegus, I have wondered about emotional instability on Peterson's part. I am sorry to hear of his rightward slide of the sort you are pointing out.
I think there is some value in self-help type books for a lot of people at various points in their lives. But I think that at some point, whether through his physical trauma or being absorbed into the audience's demands for him, Peterson lost the plot. He used to be able to push back occasionally against far-right viewpoints or to stand up for young people who face persecution from religious families.

Probably some part of his behavior also is that he is a direct employee of the Daily Wire, which is owned by two extremist Christian billionaires who are trying to force schools to teach the Bible, pass laws to prosecute as murderers raped women who have abortions. They have many other disturbing beliefs, including that Christians are the real Jews (a common anti-Semitic trope).

https://prospect.org/power/meet-billion ... ous-right/
Alphus and Omega, I followed your link and felt inclined to look a bit further at the Barton fellow. I was vaguely aware of him before. Wilkes seems to have their own odd variation of evangelical views, I was wondering if I would come up with some thoughts. Instead I found myself depressed. Perhaps just the day. I actually noticed a small accidental tear.
Alphus and Omegus
Area Authority
Posts: 603
Joined: Thu May 13, 2021 8:41 pm

Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by Alphus and Omegus »

Well I'm sorry to hear that. I think it's best not to put any real amount of confidence in people on the internet, no matter how good their manner of speaking might be. I can only hope that as Peterson continues to pile up the embarrassing incidents that his fans will start to think for themselves.
huckelberry
God
Posts: 2578
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:48 pm

Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by huckelberry »

Alphus and Omegus wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 4:01 am
Well I'm sorry to hear that. I think it's best not to put any real amount of confidence in people on the internet, no matter how good their manner of speaking might be. I can only hope that as Peterson continues to pile up the embarrassing incidents that his fans will start to think for themselves.
My tear was not for Peterson but for the cancer growing in the country and what I view as the degeneration of Christianity in our country. I think Peterson will muddle along, I hope his health improves. I have not placed a lot of hope in his being a leading force for good. If he occasionally makes people think that is a small positive.
User avatar
Some Schmo
God
Posts: 2466
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:21 am

Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by Some Schmo »

honorentheos wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 4:10 am
I found out later that over that same year Kit had been struggling at home and had strong feelings of not belonging, not being their true selves, and found the advice at home was harming rather than helping. So she turned to the internet and found the sort of "help" one finds there. I don't know the details, but by the start of Sophomore year, Kit had become Lared (name changed here as well for identity protection). Their parents refused to allow the school to refer to them as anything but by their given name, and they went through a rather tumultuous year of exploring who they were.

We ended up having a rather long conversation during this time at my daughter's birthday party. Lared had decided to sit out a game of laser tag the other kids were engaged in, and we chatted about how things were going. They told me more about their parent's feelings and resistance, I offered that it was likely difficult for them to reconcile their religious views with what they, Lared, were going through, so while I supported Lared, I suggested they keep in mind that their parents probably were doing what they felt was the best and therefore from a place of love if not acceptance. So the best I could offer was to keep in mind that theri parents certainly meant well, and if nothing else high school was a short period of time so no matter what happened, in a couple of years they'd be their own adult person. It seemed like we connected well over it.

Senior year we ended up with Lared staying with us for a week when their grandparents were not able to take them in during an episode with their parents. Normally they went to their grandparents so this wasn't the first time they had to leave home for a bit, usually for being kicked out over something said, done, discovered, or whathaveyou.

Lared recently joined our D&D group after moving in with my daughter and her roommates a few months ago after things at his other place became unhealthy. He has been transitioning through hormone therapy and his pronouns are decidedly male. I occasionally mess up. I've known him when he used every single one and them some so it's difficult to not do so. And I feel bad for him. I don't think things were predestined to go this route had things been different in the home, had they found someone other than the internet to confide in early on, had their been more support for figuring life out one step at a time. I think adulthood is just barely starting to settle down for him, too.

I don't know. Kish. I just try to be a person who sees someone else's humanity and do the best with that I can. No answers, not even good questions, really.
This is a prime example of why I think the gender pronoun thing is outrageous. Your story was confusing and hard to follow because you were using pronouns that are only understood by "them" and not to the audience you are speaking to.

Nothing in this language request annoys me more than when someone wants to be called a pronoun that is reserved for groups. That is my objection to it. It "F"s communication, and to me, that's a bigger issue, because it affects everyone.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I will fight for everyone's right to equal treatment, not matter your race, color, or sexual orientation. Everyone deserves the same baseline respect. What I won't do is fight for anyone to get special treatment.
Religion is for people whose existential fear is greater than their common sense.

The god idea is popular with desperate people.
Alphus and Omegus
Area Authority
Posts: 603
Joined: Thu May 13, 2021 8:41 pm

Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by Alphus and Omegus »

huckelberry wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 5:26 am
Alphus and Omegus wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 4:01 am
Well I'm sorry to hear that. I think it's best not to put any real amount of confidence in people on the internet, no matter how good their manner of speaking might be. I can only hope that as Peterson continues to pile up the embarrassing incidents that his fans will start to think for themselves.
My tear was not for Peterson but for the cancer growing in the country and what I view as the degeneration of Christianity in our country. I think Peterson will muddle along, I hope his health improves. I have not placed a lot of hope in his being a leading force for good. If he occasionally makes people think that is a small positive.
Yes it is a very serious problem how American Christianity was mostly taken over by political extremists who then proceeded to cancel and censor anyone who disagreed. And then they turn around and whine and complain when they receive mere criticism for their absurd fundamentalist viewpoints.

This happened in many denominations, especially within the Southern Baptist Convention which was pretty normal until a mob of far-right activists took it over and began firing anyone who wouldn't go along with their power play:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_ ... resurgence
User avatar
Kishkumen
God
Posts: 6121
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:37 pm
Location: Cassius University

Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by Kishkumen »

Some Schmo wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 2:12 pm
I've said it before and I'll say it again: I will fight for everyone's right to equal treatment, not matter your race, color, or sexual orientation. Everyone deserves the same baseline respect. What I won't do is fight for anyone to get special treatment.
Amen.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
huckelberry
God
Posts: 2578
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:48 pm

Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by huckelberry »

Alphus and Omegus wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 8:27 am
huckelberry wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 5:26 am

My tear was not for Peterson but for the cancer growing in the country and what I view as the degeneration of Christianity in our country. I think Peterson will muddle along, I hope his health improves. I have not placed a lot of hope in his being a leading force for good. If he occasionally makes people think that is a small positive.
Yes it is a very serious problem how American Christianity was mostly taken over by political extremists who then proceeded to cancel and censor anyone who disagreed. And then they turn around and whine and complain when they receive mere criticism for their absurd fundamentalist viewpoints.

This happened in many denominations, especially within the Southern Baptist Convention which was pretty normal until a mob of far-right activists took it over and began firing anyone who wouldn't go along with their power play:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_ ... resurgence
A convergence of movements, here is a quote from Wikapedia on the left behind series. I think that book series has contributed to creating a picture of how people are supposed to be really Christian focused on opposing the bad outsider,the threatening others ( the UN, government,read in liberals)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_Behind
///
"Jerry Falwell said about the first book in the series: "In terms of its impact on Christianity, it's probably greater than that of any other book in modern times, outside the Bible."[13]

Laurie Goodstein, writing in 1998 for The New York Times, placed what she called the "Left Behind phenomenon" in the calendrical context of the approaching year 2000. Goodstein noted a 'proliferation' of similarly apocalyptic texts appearing at that time, by authors such as Jim Bakker and John Hagee. Goodstein cited the opinion of University of Wisconsin historian Paul Boyer, who described such authors as "cashing in on the public preoccupation with the year 2000".[14]

While writing that the series fulfills the norms of mass-market fiction, as mentioned above, magazine writer Michelle Goldberg characterized the books as an attack on Judaism and liberal secularism, and suggested that the near-future "end times" in which the books are set seem to reflect the actual worldview of millions of Americans, including many prominent conservative leaders.[15] "
....further comments from the article:
"Some practicing Christians, evangelical and otherwise, along with non-Christians have shown concern that the social perspectives promoted in the Left Behind series unduly sensationalize the death and destruction of masses of people. Harvey Cox, a professor of divinity at Harvard, says part of the appeal of the books lies in the "lip-licking anticipation of all the blood", and Lutheran theologian Barbara Rossing, author of The Rapture Exposed: The Message of Hope in the Book of Revelation, said the books glorify violence.[24][25][26] Additionally, Paul Nuechterlein accused the authors of re-sacralizing violence, adding that "we human beings are the ones who put our faith in superior firepower. But in the Left Behind novels, the darkness of that human, Satanic violence is once again attributed to God".[27] Time said "the nuclear frights of, say, Tom Clancy's The Sum of All Fears wouldn't fill a chapter in the Left Behind series. (Large chunks of several U.S. cities have been bombed to smithereens by page 110 of Book 3.)"[25]

David Carlson, a Professor of Religious Studies and a member of the Greek Orthodox Church, wrote that the theology underpinning the Left Behind series promotes a "skewed view of the Christian faith that welcomes war and disaster, while dismissing peace efforts in the Middle East and elsewhere—all in the name of Christ".[28]
huckelberry
God
Posts: 2578
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:48 pm

Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by huckelberry »

I find the line for Jerry Falwell quoted in my previous post particularly chilling.
"Jerry Falwell said about the first book in the series: "In terms of its impact on Christianity, it's probably greater than that of any other book in modern times, outside the Bible."[13]"
A few days ago I watched on television the complete original Ben Hur.(made before left behind enthusiasm) I would have seen that when it came out but have seen it again sometime in the inbetween years as a condensed version for television which lightens the Christian themes. In the full movie Jesus projects a spiritual force for forgiveness and compassion which includes healing. It is a picture of Jesus which fits my faith and can be worthy inspiration even if one does not believe the divine aspect.

In contrast I find my self comparing it to the Mel Gibson "Passion" This was the only movie I found myself waiting in a line to see in many many years and there was more than one screen showing it. It was hugely popular. I do not like it. I have some difficulty being sure of all the reasons I find the movie bad. I find myself comparing it to the final scenes in Braveheart which I found excessive and a detraction from an otherwise good movie. In the Passion of Christ Jesus is enduring the attack of the devil and is powerful in his endurance. I think Gibson see some special power in enduring the extreme of violence. I think it misses the point.

I cannot say in terms of Christian faith, defeating the devil and enduring the pain are not significant but by themself only leaves a distorted picture I think. It can contribute to a invitation to courage and determination for a warrior. But a warrior against what? It invites a search for an enemy and an unforgiving assault on whomever gets the honor of being chosen as enemy. A bunch of people in search of an enemy can be politically manipulated I fear.
Post Reply