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doubtingthomas
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Re: "How 'ghosting' is linked to mental health" - Washington Post

Post by doubtingthomas »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2023 3:13 pm
That way, DT would be relieved of the trauma of not knowing whether a non response to a text means that the other person wants to end the interaction.
You are admitting that ghosting could cause trauma.

Now, just to clarify, I don't think I have trauma, but if I do, the ghosting contributed a lot.
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Re: "How 'ghosting' is linked to mental health" - Washington Post

Post by canpakes »

doubtingthomas wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 12:24 am
canpakes wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2023 4:06 pm
Exactly. I’d suppose that a couple of decades ago, the ‘ghosting’ of the time was not returning a phone call, or walking away, or steering wide as you pass in the aisle.
But there wasn't a 30 to 60 percent ratio of single young women and men back then. Young men had more options, and you didn't have to compete on dating apps.
No.

If you have access to a dating app today that your predecessors didn’t have available, then you have more choices of possible dating partners than your predecessors had.
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Re: "How 'ghosting' is linked to mental health" - Washington Post

Post by Res Ipsa »

doubtingthomas wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 3:07 am
Res Ipsa wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 1:00 am

No. Ignoring someone is in no way equivalent to sexually harassing them. No woman has any obligation to talk to you.
True. A woman has the right to stop talking to you at any point, even if you helped her a lot or saved her life.
Have you helped a woman a lot who later stopped talking to you? Have you saved a woman's life who later stopped talking to you?

However, women shouldn't be playing the ghosting game. If a woman no longer wishes to keep talking to a guy, she should just tell him.
Interesting choice of words: "the ghosting game." The author who wrote about her study gave no indication that anyone was playing "ghosting" as a game. But I have read about PUA culture, which does use "ghosting" as one of many tools to manipulate women. That sounds like a ghosting game to me. In fact, if I recall correctly, you discussed on this message board potentially using ghosting as a game with one of the LDS women you'd been talking to.

I think you're conflating two very different uses of "ghosting." The article is about ending some kind of extended online conversation or relationship by simply not talking anymore. And, as the article says, it could have unhealthy consequences for the both the ghostor and the ghostee.

Using ghost to manipulate another person in a relationship is, like PUA culture itself, toxic as hell. Borrowing a point repeatedly made by Marcus, PUA treats women as objects rather than adults who are fully capable of making their own decisions about relationships.

But one thing you keep ignoring is the 45% who said they ghosted for safety reasons. Talk to women about their experiences with guys who won't take no for an answer when they try to end a relationship. I've heard enough of these experiences (including a co-worker who had his wife and step-child murdered by her ex-husband, to make it perfectly understandable why a woman would ghost a man who sets off her "creepy" alarm.
doubtingthomas wrote:Getting ghosted a lot could be bad for your mental health. Right? It might be doing a lot of damage.
This sounds like fishing for an excuse to maintain your strong resentment of women who have rejected your romantic advances in the past. In large part, it's all about how you handle rejection. About half of people in the study viewed being ghosted as a chance to develop resiliency and self reliance. Our society on the whole does a pretty poor job teaching young folks how to handle rejection -- especially young men. Ghosting could just as easily be adopted by society as an appropriate way to end an online relationship, in which case it would have no more impact than the emoji I suggested.

What I have noticed with all of my children is a movement away from "dating" as I knew it and toward socializing in groups. And they get together online and in person fairly frequently. They have a discord server where someone is online almost all the time. It's a tight, supportive community.
Res Ipsa wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 1:00 am

No. Ignoring someone is in no way equivalent to sexually harassing them. No woman has any obligation to talk to you.
doubtingthomas wrote:Not all sexual harassment is obvious and doesn't involve physical touch.
So? Who said it was? Harassment in general is a course of unwelcome conduct directed toward a person. It it an intentional disregard of their personal autonomy. Ignoring someone is not intrusive or a disregard of the other person's autonomy.
doubtingthomas wrote:Why is sexual harassment not the same as ghosting people? The damage to your mental health could be similar.[/quotes] See above. Yes, and God could be real. This kind of speculation is what leads me to think this is more about feeling good about your past conduct or giving yourself permission to engage in poor conduct.
drumdude wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 1:46 am

Yes, it sucks. But it happens.
True, it could be contributing to the rise of mental illness in the US.
And it could not be contributing. So?
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Re: "How 'ghosting' is linked to mental health" - Washington Post

Post by Doctor Steuss »

doubtingthomas wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 3:07 am
However, women shouldn't be playing the ghosting game. If a woman no longer wishes to keep talking to a guy, she should just tell him.
They are telling you they no longer want to talk to you by no longer talking to you.
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Re: "How 'ghosting' is linked to mental health" - Washington Post

Post by Chap »

Doctor Steuss wrote:
Mon Apr 03, 2023 2:45 pm
doubtingthomas wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 3:07 am
However, women shouldn't be playing the ghosting game. If a woman no longer wishes to keep talking to a guy, she should just tell him.
They are telling you they no longer want to talk to you by no longer talking to you.
Er, yes. You may not think it kind, but many women's experience tells them that explaining nicely to a guy that they don't want to hear from him any more just leads inevitably to ... (surprise!) continuing to talk to the guy in question. If later they simply stop replying, the guy gets upset, demands more explanation of why the woman does not find talking to them an attractive option, and so on and so forth.

It's easier to just stop, and leave it at that.
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Re: "How 'ghosting' is linked to mental health" - Washington Post

Post by Res Ipsa »

Chap wrote:
Mon Apr 03, 2023 6:21 pm
Doctor Steuss wrote:
Mon Apr 03, 2023 2:45 pm

They are telling you they no longer want to talk to you by no longer talking to you.
Er, yes. You may not think it kind, but many women's experience tells them that explaining nicely to a guy that they don't want to hear from him any more just leads inevitably to ... (surprise!) continuing to talk to the guy in question. If later they simply stop replying, the guy gets upset, demands more explanation of why the woman does not find talking to them an attractive option, and so on and so forth.

It's easier to just stop, and leave it at that.
Exactly.
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Re: "How 'ghosting' is linked to mental health" - Washington Post

Post by Doctor Steuss »

Chap wrote:
Mon Apr 03, 2023 6:21 pm
Doctor Steuss wrote:
Mon Apr 03, 2023 2:45 pm

They are telling you they no longer want to talk to you by no longer talking to you.
Er, yes. You may not think it kind, but many women's experience tells them that explaining nicely to a guy that they don't want to hear from him any more just leads inevitably to ... (surprise!) continuing to talk to the guy in question. If later they simply stop replying, the guy gets upset, demands more explanation of why the woman does not find talking to them an attractive option, and so on and so forth.

It's easier to just stop, and leave it at that.
Yup.

My wife has received hundreds (not exaggerating... literally hundreds from single individuals) of messages before from men that she has never responded to a single time. Several have gone on for years. Years of receiving messages without ever responding. I asked to respond to a voice message once from a guy that had been sending her voice messages several times a week for about 5 months, with a voice message of my own. She explained to me that any response would be used as a way to escalate/continue. I asked her why she didn't block these people, and in her experience that often makes things even worse (they'll then create other accounts, and increase the messages... "blocking" basically acknowledges receipt of the messages).

Rarely a week goes by without a man sending her a graphic picture of themselves on a social media platform. I can only imagine what dating apps are like.

For every six women on a dating app, chances are at least one of them has been a victim of sexual assault. Probably more have been victims of stalking or offensive sexual and/or violent messages. Demanding that women have to explain to men why/when they want to stop communication is essentially mandating that they put themselves at risk (both mentally, and potentially physically) in order to coddle a handful of fragile male egos.
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Re: (Megathread) PhD Researcher: Women are way pickier these days, Red Pill is right about some things

Post by Gadianton »

whoah, hold on, I hadn't heard the term before, but now "ghosting" is a crime against young men? This is nuts.

Any guy complaining about ghosting is just trying to manipulate the girls he's complaining about. Believe me, if young men are traumatized over girls disappearing, they're going to get committed to a ward if they get what they're demanding: the girl truthfully explaining why she's not interested. You think these oversensitive video-game addicts are going to appreciate being told they are too fat, or too thin, or have an ugly face, or bad breath, or act like weirdos?

No. they will scream abuse and call the FBI if that happens. They want to put the girl between a rock and a hard place -- she has tell the weirdo guy that she's not interested but abstractly. She can't tell him the truth, she has to say he's a great guy and absolutely nothing wrong with him but maybe she just didn't feel that connection, or maybe she's not ready for anything more. It has to be something that doesn't hurt his feelings or she's mean, but anything like that can reasonably be disputed. I mean, if she says the guy was a lot of fun and totally cool but didn't really feel a spark, then why shouldn't he keep pursuing? It's really unlikely that she's going to know a guy is the right fit as a long-term partner after three emails or a first meeting. So by telling him she's not interested in ways he will accept without having his self-esteem crushed, it either leaves the door open to keep pursuing, or it's mutually understood as code for "I'm not attracted to you because of of x, y, and z deficiencies", and that means he can then hound her for being dishonest, he can point out she's just saying that as an easy way to get rid of him. And so she either has to keep the door open indefinitely, or be straightforward, and look mean or superficial.
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Re: (Megathread) PhD Researcher: Women are way pickier these days, Red Pill is right about some things

Post by Chap »

Gadianton wrote:
Tue Apr 04, 2023 3:41 am
Believe me, if young men are traumatized over girls disappearing, they're going to get committed to a ward if they get what they're demanding: the girl truthfully explaining why she's not interested. You think these oversensitive video-game addicts are going to appreciate being told they are too fat, or too thin, or have an ugly face, or bad breath, or act like weirdos?

No. they will scream abuse and call the FBI if that happens. They want to put the girl between a rock and a hard place -- she has tell the weirdo guy that she's not interested but abstractly. She can't tell him the truth, she has to say he's a great guy and absolutely nothing wrong with him but maybe she just didn't feel that connection, or maybe she's not ready for anything more. It has to be something that doesn't hurt his feelings or she's mean, but anything like that can reasonably be disputed.
On the bolded sentence. If a woman tells a guy she finds him boring and/or repellent, she is taking a considerable risk: he might go ballistic with rage and abuse online, or he may start trying to find her in real life so she can be punished for her 'disrespectful' attitude.

Silence is safest and therefore best. I am astonished that DT does not see this, which from a woman's point of view is blindingly obvious.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Mayan Elephant:
Not only have I denounced the Big Lie, I have denounced the Big lie big lie.
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Re: (Megathread) PhD Researcher: Women are way pickier these days, Red Pill is right about some things

Post by Physics Guy »

A scene recently played by a family member:
in Much Ado About Nothing II:i, Shakespeare wrote:BENEDICK Well, I would you did like me.
MARGARET So would not I for your own sake, for I have many ill qualities.
BENEDICK Which is one?
MARGARET I say my prayers aloud.
BENEDICK I love you the better; the hearers may cry “Amen.”
MARGARET God match me with a good dancer.

[They separate; Benedick moves aside; Balthasar moves forward.]

BALTHASAR Amen.
MARGARET And God keep him out of my sight when the
dance is done. Answer, clerk.
BALTHASAR No more words. The clerk is answered.
Getting rid of unwanted attention is an old enough problem that it was a trope in Shakespeare's day, and no doubt in Homer's. I think most men today still know how to take a hint and exit decently like Benedick and Balthasar. Disappointment hurts but you face it and move on. What may be new is the ease with which that one guy who just won't accept No can keep on bedeviling a woman electronically.
Last edited by Physics Guy on Tue Apr 04, 2023 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I was a teenager before it was cool.
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