Society is discriminating against boys, says Forbes. Brookings.edu says, "boys are falling behind"

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doubtingthomas
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Re: Society is discriminating against boys, says Forbes. Brookings.edu says, "boys are falling behind"

Post by doubtingthomas »

honorentheos wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:01 am

To be clear, you are equating the opioid crisis with a decrease in male college entrance and completion rates? Those are equal in your mind?
No, someone who doesn't go to college is more likely to end up with an opioid addiction.
Bachelor’s Degree 259 6.8% 24940 9.4% 537100 14.7%
Some College/Associate Degree 1192 31.4% 56370 21.4% 997900 27.2%
High School/GED 1341 35.4% 93150
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6968850/

So, do you have any evidence that median income is higher for young men than young women when controlling for race? If not, then why do universities have to discriminate against men?
"I have the type of (REAL) job where I can choose how to spend my time," says Marcus. :roll:
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canpakes
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Re: Society is discriminating against boys, says Forbes. Brookings.edu says, "boys are falling behind"

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doubtingthomas wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:52 am
canpakes wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:33 am


You’re right. I focused on single parents because I misread your statement.
:lol:

Everyone misreads what I say, that happens all the time. I appreciate your honesty.
canpakes wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:33 am

I’m not convinced that ‘society’ discriminates against boys based on college enrollment numbers alone. You may want to focus more cleanly on the issue of college enrollment and completion as opposed to ‘society’. You’re not even following your own criteria about ‘controls’ for any factors with such a sweeping accusation.
Have you read the Brookings and Forbes articles? The Forbes article talks about the many programs that "discriminate against men".
I have read both articles. These programs may violate a strict reading of Title IX in that they exist to promote the enrollment or support of women in college, but this technical definition does not demonstrate any actual effect against male enrollment or support in college. Again, you are assuming a zero sum problem, yet demonstrating no data to support it. To wit; Mark Perry (from the article) has filed over 400 complaints of supposed TIX violations since 2016; has the enrollment trend that you’re highlighting worsened or not since that time?

Ironically, Perry’s latest round of filings is against MIT. Per the article, “Women are still underrepresented at MIT and account for 47% of undergraduates and only 38% of graduate students.”

Anyways, you should watch it, "MEETING THE ENEMY A feminist comes to terms with the Men's Rights movement | Cassie Jaye | TEDxMarin"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WMuzhQXJoY

But just to clarify, I do not agree with the Men's Rights movement because I do think women deserve several advantages and privileges.
I find some irony in the fact that the same cohort of the population that is so keen on emphasizing the differences in men and women in relationships is also just as keen on not wanting to acknowledge that the two sexes might encounter different challenges and needs when pursuing their education.
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canpakes
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Re: Society is discriminating against boys, says Forbes. Brookings.edu says, "boys are falling behind"

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doubtingthomas wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:01 am
canpakes wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:46 am

Regarding the graph that I posted: take care to notice that it’s not representing college enrollment; rather, it addresses the percentage of the population that holds a 4 year degree. If society was so blatantly discriminatory towards men, I’d expect that the gap would be much more excessive in favor of women, by now. ; )
But a lot of men who don't have a college degree end up in jail or end up with an opioid addiction.
1. Are you saying that a college degree prevents opioid addiction? If so, what specifically might be altering the chances?

2. Are you saying that women without a college degree also tend to end up in jail or end up with an opioid addiction?

canpakes wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:46 am

But, it’s interesting that you are requiring a control. Would you care to supply your data source?
I require control because we need to compare apples to apples. Do you have any evidence that the median income of white young women is lower than the median income of white young men?
I don’t need to supply any evidence of either this or, say, how many oranges the average woman eats in a week, until you can explain how either thing proves that ‘society is discriminating against boys’.
Now, I agree the Motherhood penalty is a real issue, but nobody is forcing people to get married and have children.
Right. Keep that in mind for later.
Just because the motherhood penalty is real doesn't mean that universities should discriminate against men.
This seems to be a non sequitur.
doubtingthomas
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Re: Society is discriminating against boys, says Forbes. Brookings.edu says, "boys are falling behind"

Post by doubtingthomas »

canpakes wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:09 am

Ironically, Perry’s latest round of filings is against MIT. Per the article, “Women are still underrepresented at MIT and account for 47% of undergraduates and only 38% of graduate students.”
I agree and now STEM departments are blatantly discriminatory towards men. STEM departments are investing a lot of money to only help women.
canpakes wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:09 am
These programs may violate a strict reading of Title IX in that they exist to promote the enrollment or support of women in college, but this technical definition does not demonstrate any actual effect against male enrollment or support in college.
College is very expensive without a scholarship. The majority of scholarships are awarded to women. A lot of programs are designed to help women in college, not men. A lot of men aren't getting the help they need to finish college.
"I have the type of (REAL) job where I can choose how to spend my time," says Marcus. :roll:
doubtingthomas
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Re: Society is discriminating against boys, says Forbes. Brookings.edu says, "boys are falling behind"

Post by doubtingthomas »

canpakes wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:23 am
I don’t need to supply any evidence of either this or, say, how many oranges the average woman eats in a week, until you can explain how either thing proves that ‘society is discriminating against boys’.
"There’s a lot of financial aid available to women pursuing STEM careers"

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/20/theres- ... reers.html

That's not discrimination?
"I have the type of (REAL) job where I can choose how to spend my time," says Marcus. :roll:
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Re: Society is discriminating against boys, says Forbes. Brookings.edu says, "boys are falling behind"

Post by Marcus »

doubtingthomas wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:30 am
canpakes wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:23 am
I don’t need to supply any evidence of either this or, say, how many oranges the average woman eats in a week, until you can explain how either thing proves that ‘society is discriminating against boys’.
"There’s a lot of financial aid available to women pursuing STEM careers"

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/20/theres- ... reers.html

That's not discrimination?
Do you ever read these links you post?
Women are significantly underrepresented in STEM professions and for the few who are pursuing science, technology, engineering or math careers – there are a lot of financial challenges. That’s why a lot of companies and organizations are offering scholarships and other financial assistance to help bridge this gender gap in these crucial fields.
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canpakes
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Re: Society is discriminating against boys, says Forbes. Brookings.edu says, "boys are falling behind"

Post by canpakes »

doubtingthomas wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:24 am
canpakes wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:09 am

Ironically, Perry’s latest round of filings is against MIT. Per the article, “Women are still underrepresented at MIT and account for 47% of undergraduates and only 38% of graduate students.”
I agree and now STEM departments are blatantly discriminatory towards men. STEM departments are investing a lot of money to only help women.
Yet, “Women are still underrepresented at MIT and account for 47% of undergraduates and only 38% of graduate students.”

And you’re doing it again. Helping Person X doesn’t necessarily hurt or discriminate against Person Y. You’re giving no evidence that a program that would, as example, encourage more women to enroll in math and science related courses somehow discourages male students from doing the same.
canpakes wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:09 am
These programs may violate a strict reading of Title IX in that they exist to promote the enrollment or support of women in college, but this technical definition does not demonstrate any actual effect against male enrollment or support in college.
College is very expensive without a scholarship. The majority of scholarships are awarded to women. A lot of programs are designed to help women in college, not men. A lot of men aren't getting the help they need to finish college.
If more women than men are enrolled in a given college or university, then more women than men may be receiving assistance when they land on campus. In other words, if 50% of all male and female students at USC receive financial aid, and 55% of the student population is female, then more women than men receive aid. You need to be more specific with your claim, if you want to show some sort of other percentage skew.

Past that, women still shoulder a larger share of student loan debt, and require longer time to repay that deft after college due to disparities in pay levels for same or similar positions as their male counterparts.
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Re: Society is discriminating against boys, says Forbes. Brookings.edu says, "boys are falling behind"

Post by doubtingthomas »

Marcus wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:38 am

Do you ever read these links you post?
Women are significantly underrepresented in STEM professions and for the few who are pursuing science, technology, engineering or math careers – there are a lot of financial challenges. That’s why a lot of companies and organizations are offering scholarships and other financial assistance to help bridge this gender gap in these crucial fields.
:roll: Do you ever understand something?

That's still discrimination. Just because there are more men in STEM doesn't mean that companies and organizations should offer free money to women only. Men need financial aid too.

And why is the fact that women are underrepresented in STEM important? Can you prove that the median income of young women is lower than the median income of young men when controlling for race?
Last edited by doubtingthomas on Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:48 am, edited 2 times in total.
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canpakes
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Re: Society is discriminating against boys, says Forbes. Brookings.edu says, "boys are falling behind"

Post by canpakes »

doubtingthomas wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:30 am
canpakes wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:23 am
I don’t need to supply any evidence of either this or, say, how many oranges the average woman eats in a week, until you can explain how either thing proves that ‘society is discriminating against boys’.
"There’s a lot of financial aid available to women pursuing STEM careers"

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/20/theres- ... reers.html

That's not discrimination?
No.

If you need to eat, and I buy you a meal, am I discriminating against anyone else in doing so?
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canpakes
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Re: Society is discriminating against boys, says Forbes. Brookings.edu says, "boys are falling behind"

Post by canpakes »

doubtingthomas wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:47 am
Marcus wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:38 am

Do you ever read these links you post?
:roll: Do you ever understand something?

That's still discrimination. Just because there are more men in STEM doesn't mean that companies and organizations should offer free money to women only. Men need financial aid too.
Lol. Do you want to bring athletic scholarships into the discussion?
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