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Re: Society is discriminating against boys, says Forbes. Brookings.edu says, "boys are falling behind"
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:01 pm
by canpakes
No. Read the article. The complaint has nothing to do with ‘the number’ of scholarships geared towards women. It has to do with the fact of
any scholarship at all being offered
exclusively to women. There could be only three of such a thing in the US, and the litigious fellow from the American Enterprise Institute that we talked about before would still attempt to remove them.
Here’s what you should be trying for, to start:
1. Provide data for scholarship availability for women or men exclusively, or both.
2. Provide data on total dollars available from each scholarship, or for men or women candidates exclusively, for comparison,
3. Provide data that demonstrates that availability of any given scholarship for a woman subsequently causes a male to either (1) not graduate from high school, (2) not enroll in a 2- or 4-year institution, or trade school, and (3) not graduate from any post-secondary schooling that they may have enrolled into.
I’ll put a pot o’ coffee on while you gather these up.
Re: Society is discriminating against boys, says Forbes. Brookings.edu says, "boys are falling behind"
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:04 pm
by canpakes
doubtingthomas wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:50 pm
canpakes wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:45 pm
Have fun perusing this list -
Jesus Christ, you don't have to be so complicated.
Lol. Thank you. : D
"A new study that recently came out revealed that 84% of roughly 220 universities "
lopsidedly benefited women" by offering single-gender scholarships, many of which are in STEM fields; permitted under Title IX only if the "overall effect" of scholarships is equitable."
https://www.scholarships.com/news/femal ... -higher-ed
Are you claiming that scholarships permitted under Title IX “only if the overall effect of scholarships is equitable”, are inequitable?
Re: Society is discriminating against boys, says Forbes. Brookings.edu says, "boys are falling behind"
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:58 pm
by Res Ipsa
Here's an interesting analysis from the St. Louis Fed:
https://www.stlouisfed.org/on-the-econo ... enrollment
TL/DR: the wage gap between men and women without college degrees is pretty big, with men earning more. For women, the college degree pays off much more in increased earnings than it does for men.
That's not to say that there isn't room for educational reform to help boys succeed, especially in the K-12 grades. The graduation rate is higher for girls, so it makes sense to consider whether there is anything about the structure of education that leads to higher drop out rates for boys.
Re: Society is discriminating against boys, says Forbes. Brookings.edu says, "boys are falling behind"
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:14 pm
by canpakes
Res Ipsa wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:58 pm
That's not to say that there isn't room for educational reform to help boys succeed, especially in the K-12 grades. The graduation rate is higher for girls, so it makes sense to consider whether there is anything about the structure of education that leads to higher drop out rates for boys.
I think that this is where the focus should be.
DT’s correct about some disparities in scholarship dollars/availability when comparing between men and women, and the fact that women are outpacing men in both enrollment and completion. But I don’t agree with DT’s implication that the situation for
men can be best or distinctly improved by making it
harder for women to enter university, or access support while enrolled.
Re: Society is discriminating against boys, says Forbes. Brookings.edu says, "boys are falling behind"
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:29 pm
by doubtingthomas
Res Ipsa wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:58 pm
Here's an interesting analysis from the St. Louis Fed:
https://www.stlouisfed.org/on-the-econo ... enrollment
TL/DR: the wage gap between men and women without college degrees is pretty big, with men earning more. For women, the college degree pays off much more in increased earnings than it does for men.
I like your response, you make a valid point.
canpakes wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:14 pm
But I don’t agree with DT’s implication that the situation for
men can be best or distinctly improved by making it
harder for women to enter university, or access support while enrolled.
That's not what I suggested. Have you heard of the principle of scarcity? Resources aren't unlimited.
Re: Society is discriminating against boys, says Forbes. Brookings.edu says, "boys are falling behind"
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:31 pm
by doubtingthomas
canpakes wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:14 pm
DT’s correct about some disparities in scholarship dollars/availability when comparing between men and women
Thank you!
Re: Society is discriminating against boys, says Forbes. Brookings.edu says, "boys are falling behind"
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:42 pm
by Marcus
doubtingthomas wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:29 pm
canpakes wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:14 pm
But I don’t agree with DT’s implication that the situation for
men can be best or distinctly improved by making it
harder for women to enter university, or access support while enrolled.
That's not what I suggested. Have you heard of the principle of scarcity? Resources aren't unlimited.
So, scarcity and limited resources, what happens when you arbitrarily give one group more? think about it for a minute...
Re: Society is discriminating against boys, says Forbes. Brookings.edu says, "boys are falling behind"
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:34 am
by canpakes
doubtingthomas wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:29 pm
canpakes wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:14 pm
But I don’t agree with DT’s implication that the situation for
men can be best or distinctly improved by making it
harder for women to enter university, or access support while enrolled.
That's not what I suggested. Have you heard of the principle of scarcity? Resources aren't unlimited.
If an organization comes together to create and offer a scholarship to women where none existed before, is that organization necessarily stealing those funds from another scholarship?
If there’s truly a limited number of scholarship dollars, should women be penalized for making efficient use of them?
I’m still looking for some data from you that supports your zero-sum reasoning.
Re: Society is discriminating against boys, says Forbes. Brookings.edu says, "boys are falling behind"
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:40 am
by doubtingthomas
Marcus wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:42 pm
So, scarcity and limited resources, what happens
when you arbitrarily give one group more? think about it for a minute...
Exactly!
I am not suggesting that men should get more scholarships than women.
Re: Society is discriminating against boys, says Forbes. Brookings.edu says, "boys are falling behind"
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:44 am
by doubtingthomas
canpakes wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:34 am
If there’s truly a limited number of scholarship dollars, should women be penalized for making efficient use of them?
I’m still looking for some data from you that supports your zero-sum reasoning.
Nobody is saying that women should be penalized. We simply have to be fair when there's a limited number of scholarship dollars.
If you prove that the median income of young men is higher than the median income of young women when controlling for race, then you'll have a very good reason why women should be given more scholarships than men.