What's up with Florida?

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Vēritās
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Re: What's up with Florida?

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Kishkumen wrote:
Fri May 19, 2023 11:15 am
Florida college students are still able to get a real education. I am not exactly sure why you think they can’t.
Hyperbole. Referencing all of the book banning that's going on down there. It is getting so bad that some educators are defecting to other states.

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Kishkumen
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Re: What's up with Florida?

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Vēritās wrote:
Fri May 19, 2023 12:35 pm

Hyperbole. Referencing all of the book banning that's going on down there. It is getting so bad that some educators are defecting to other states.

https://digitaledition.orlandosentinel. ... 913ad332bf
There is no question that education and educators are under attack, and that this is going to have major negative consequences for the people of the state. DeSantis is deeply harming Florida education. Excellent teachers and scholars will find friendlier environments to work in. It is clear that the GOP has deep disdain for education and educators. On the one hand, I will happily admit that there are problems. On the other, I don't think the measures being taken are the way to solve those problems.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
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Some Schmo
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Re: What's up with Florida?

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I keep reading articles like this one about groups issuing travel advisories to Florida.

I've had no desire to visit Florida in over 10 years now. It's an ugly damned state littered with ugly damned billboards everywhere. I've been all over the country and there are plenty of nicer places I'd rather travel, without DeSantis having gone damned nuts.

What's remarkable to me is how daft people are not recognizing that the GOP is really embracing the idea of a dictator these days. A lot of them are damned stupid enough to really want it. I suppose the GOP campaign to keep their base uneducated and ignorant has worked well.

I think DeSantis eating chocolate pudding with his fingers is a metaphor for how he's got his hand up the ass of every Floridian, and many of them seem to accept it.

Oh, and religion continues to poison this country. “F” religion, most commonly synonymous with hypocrisy and BS. Life begins at conception... damned morons.
Religion is for people whose existential fear is greater than their common sense.

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ajax18
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Re: What's up with Florida?

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I think Florida kids can become productive contributing members of society without being inculcated in pornography and gay sexual techniques during grade school. Let's compare them to Californians in 30 years and see how it turns out. I for one am happy my daughter won't be sharing a bathroom with biological boys while attending compulsory public education. And I didn't even have to make Merrick Garland's list as a domestic terrorist to secure this right for her. For those who don't like these policies, I'd invite you to move northward where you can freely enjoy the fruits of the precedents you've set with like minded people.
And when the Confederates saw Jackson standing fearless like a stonewall, the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
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Kishkumen
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Re: What's up with Florida?

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ajax18 wrote:
Sun May 28, 2023 8:51 pm
I think Florida kids can become productive contributing members of society without being inculcated in pornography and gay sexual techniques during grade school. Let's compare them to Californians in 30 years and see how it turns out. I for one am happy my daughter won't be sharing a bathroom with biological boys while attending compulsory public education. And I didn't even have to make Merrick Garland's list as a domestic terrorist to secure this right for her. For those who don't like these policies, I'd invite you to move northward where you can freely enjoy the fruits of the precedents you've set with like minded people.
Sigh. Well, where are they being inculcated in "pornography and gay sexual techniques," ajax18? I mean, if a book is in the school library, no one is required to pick it up and read it. Discussion of the fact that there are gay people or trans people is not inculcation in these things. I guess I don't entirely understand what your panic is about. Perhaps you think the knowledge that there are such people will turn your kids into gay or trans people?

I mean, I understand the point of school focusing on the basics that prepare people to contribute to society and be self-reliant as adults. So, sure, I don't think a great deal of time should be devoted to the arcana of gender theory, and I think it is fair that kids not have access to actual porn in schools--although surely their fellow students may well give them access to such materials, but the stuff you are talking about does not really happen. Inculcating? Where is this inculcating happening?

I think it is fine that you choose to raise your kids to be kooks like you are. That is your business. I don't think it prepares them to be useful participants in our economy or society, but it is your prerogative to raise them to be ignorant bigots who believe in conspiracy theories. I just hope you are in a very small minority. The problem is that this minority is probably not small enough.
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ajax18
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Re: What's up with Florida?

Post by ajax18 »

Kishkumen wrote:
Tue May 30, 2023 1:41 pm
ajax18 wrote:
Sun May 28, 2023 8:51 pm
I think Florida kids can become productive contributing members of society without being inculcated in pornography and gay sexual techniques during grade school. Let's compare them to Californians in 30 years and see how it turns out. I for one am happy my daughter won't be sharing a bathroom with biological boys while attending compulsory public education. And I didn't even have to make Merrick Garland's list as a domestic terrorist to secure this right for her. For those who don't like these policies, I'd invite you to move northward where you can freely enjoy the fruits of the precedents you've set with like minded people.
Sigh. Well, where are they being inculcated in "pornography and gay sexual techniques," ajax18? I mean, if a book is in the school library, no one is required to pick it up and read it. Discussion of the fact that there are gay people or trans people is not inculcation in these things. I guess I don't entirely understand what your panic is about. Perhaps you think the knowledge that there are such people will turn your kids into gay or trans people?

I mean, I understand the point of school focusing on the basics that prepare people to contribute to society and be self-reliant as adults. So, sure, I don't think a great deal of time should be devoted to the arcana of gender theory, and I think it is fair that kids not have access to actual porn in schools--although surely their fellow students may well give them access to such materials, but the stuff you are talking about does not really happen. Inculcating? Where is this inculcating happening?

I think it is fine that you choose to raise your kids to be kooks like you are. That is your business. I don't think it prepares them to be useful participants in our economy or society, but it is your prerogative to raise them to be ignorant bigots who believe in conspiracy theories. I just hope you are in a very small minority. The problem is that this minority is probably not small enough.
I think we might have some common ground here. I just don't want teachers presenting the idea that people are born gay as proven science. I teach my children that same gender attraction may happen very rarely but as Latter Day Saints we believe homosexuality is immoral. I don't want them inculcating them that this makes their Dad a bigot anymore than those teachers want my kids proselyting and preaching to them this is what we think about homosexuality. So maybe best to just not talk about in a public school? Or maybe we should be bearing testimony in school?
And when the Confederates saw Jackson standing fearless like a stonewall, the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
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Kishkumen
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Re: What's up with Florida?

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I think we might have some common ground here. I just don't want teachers presenting the idea that people are born gay as proven science. I teach my children that same gender attraction may happen very rarely but as Latter Day Saints we believe homosexuality is immoral. I don't want them inculcating them that this makes their Dad a bigot anymore than those teachers want my kids proselyting and preaching to them this is what we think about homosexuality. So maybe best to just not talk about in a public school? Or maybe we should be bearing testimony in school?
I can tell you who will teach them that their dad is a bigot: their classmates. I think the war is over, unless you just want to take your kids out of public school or find a religious private school. My kids lecture me about cultural appropriation, pronouns, trans people, etc. They are not getting this from their teachers but from other kids. My daughter’s boyfriend has an older sibling who is trans. The kids had a friend in band who is trans. You think these friends are telling them anything but the latest gender stuff? How else do they validate who they are to my kids?

So, sure, tell the teachers they can’t teach this stuff, and see what difference it makes. I think it won’t make much difference at all. If you can homeschool or send your kids to some conservative private religious school, then maybe you can shelter them from the changes in the culture.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
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ajax18
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Re: What's up with Florida?

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Kishkumen wrote:
Wed May 31, 2023 1:46 am
I think we might have some common ground here. I just don't want teachers presenting the idea that people are born gay as proven science. I teach my children that same gender attraction may happen very rarely but as Latter Day Saints we believe homosexuality is immoral. I don't want them inculcating them that this makes their Dad a bigot anymore than those teachers want my kids proselyting and preaching to them this is what we think about homosexuality. So maybe best to just not talk about in a public school? Or maybe we should be bearing testimony in school?
I can tell you who will teach them that their dad is a bigot: their classmates. I think the war is over, unless you just want to take your kids out of public school or find a religious private school. My kids lecture me about cultural appropriation, pronouns, trans people, etc. They are not getting this from their teachers but from other kids. My daughter’s boyfriend has an older sibling who is trans. The kids had a friend in band who is trans. You think these friends are telling them anything but the latest gender stuff? How else do they validate who they are to my kids?

So, sure, tell the teachers they can’t teach this stuff, and see what difference it makes. I think it won’t make much difference at all. If you can homeschool or send your kids to some conservative private religious school, then maybe you can shelter them from the changes in the culture.
I have to pay for public schools whether I get to use them or not. But then again suburban public schools are also becoming too dangerous anyway, so maybe there isn't much difference.
And when the Confederates saw Jackson standing fearless like a stonewall, the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
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Kishkumen
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Re: What's up with Florida?

Post by Kishkumen »

ajax18 wrote:
Wed May 31, 2023 2:25 am
I have to pay for public schools whether I get to use them or not. But then again suburban public schools are also becoming too dangerous anyway, so maybe there isn't much difference.
Yeah, you have to pay for public school. Boohoo. It is better for us if transgender kids can get decent jobs than if they are stuck on welfare. They need education too, and you can certainly do your part to pay for it. Your indifference to other human beings will not make the world a better place but a worse one. But, yeah, please do take your kids out of school so they don’t have any clue what a trans person is, and pay your taxes. You have a right to homeschool your kids, get vouchers for a private Christian school, etc. I wish you and your kids the best with that. I don’t think it is the end of the world to have your kids go another educational route. Some of the best students I have taught were homeschooled in conservative religious households.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
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Moksha
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Re: What's up with Florida?

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ajax18 wrote:
Wed May 31, 2023 2:25 am
I have to pay for public schools whether I get to use them or not.
That is a point to consider. I understand most Southern whites have opted for private schools for decades in order to avoid racial desegregation and to keep the kids whistling Dixie. Couldn't the Florida white citizen's council simply erect a third outhouse for the transgender kids that may exist in this segregated environment?
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