Do some Black people resent their own race?

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Vēritās
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Re: Do some Black people resent their own race?

Post by Vēritās »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Sat May 20, 2023 6:03 pm
I'm not convinced that I'm seeing a phenomenon that requires any kind of explanation. I think the base rate fallacy is in play.

I'm going to use the word "partner" to mean spouse or spousal equivalent.

Let's assume that choosing a partner involved no racial or political preference or bias at all. All other things being equal, what percentage of black folks should we expect to have non-black partners?

Well, about 28% of Americans identify as Republican (as opposed to Democratic or independent). https://news.gallup.com/poll/467897/par ... epublicans.

Of that 28% of Americans, only about 2% are black. https://news.gallup.com/poll/160373/dem ... white.aspx

Let's assume that choosing a partner is race neutral -- there is no bias in favor or against any race, including one's own. Let's also assume that people choose partners who are of the same political party identification. Everything else being equal, we would expect that .6% of black republicans would have black spouses. That's only 6 out of 1000.

Now, that six out of 1000 represents the lower bound. If partner selection is subject to some racial bias and the bias toward political affiliation is less than 100%, the percentage will increase. You can play with the numbers. But, given that we are not just talking about black folks who consider themselves Republicans but folks who are either politicians or high profile influencers, I suspect that the role of political affiliation in partner selection is pretty close to 100%.

The non-random selection of examples we've seen here is completely explained by the very small percentage of black folks who identify as Republican and that political affiliation plays a very strong role in partner selection. No hating one's own race or any other psychological speculation is necessary.
So basically black Republicans are going to choose other Republicans to marry and there aren't enough black Republicans to choose from, so they tend to marry white partners. That's an intriguing take.

I think it hinges primarily on the assumption that political affiliation is the biggest driver in deciding on a partner. That seems to beg the question though. I mean, this might be truer today as the nation becomes more and more polarized, but I am not sure this was true when most of these folks mentioned on this thread got married; some decades ago. And in the example of Burgess Owens, he actually married a white woman who was a Liberal.

I don't know. Maybe education plays a role too? Interracial marriages appear to be more common the more education a person has. Politicians and "high profile influencers" as you put it tend to be those who are more educated.
"I am not an American ... In my view premarital sex should be illegal ...(there are) mentally challenged people with special needs like myself- Ajax18
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Re: Do some Black people resent their own race?

Post by Res Ipsa »

Vēritās wrote:
Mon May 22, 2023 12:34 am
So basically black Republicans are going to choose other Republicans to marry and there aren't enough black Republicans to choose from, so they tend to marry white partners. That's an intriguing take.
Not quite. It's an exercise in avoiding the base rate fallacy.
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Re: Do some Black people resent their own race?

Post by Physics Guy »

Maybe people in general do not restrict themselves to partners of similar political views, but I'd expect people who end up as prominent politicians to be serious enough about their political views that they might well be really strongly biased towards partners with the same affiliation. I mean, if you're the type of person who is going to end up in Congress as a Republican, you probably eat and drink Republican politics to the point where no-one who isn't also a keen Republican could stand living with you. You're also going to be asking your partner to support you in a lot of ways, or at least to tolerate you being awfully busy for your political cause. They're not likely to do that if they don't they share your vision.

So if you're a Republican office-holder, I would indeed expect that your partner is going to be a staunch Republican, too. If you're a Black Republican office-holder, that means your partner is going to be drawn from an overwhelmingly White pool. Other reasons for tending to find a White partner may conceivably exist, but this simple reason seems likely to be the overwhelmingly predominant one, to the point where it probably isn't worth thinking about those other reasons because it will be hopeless to find evidence for or against them when any effects they might have would be swamped by the main cause of having few Black Republicans.
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Re: Do some Black people resent their own race?

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Physics Guy wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 9:54 am
Maybe people in general do not restrict themselves to partners of similar political views, but I'd expect people who end up as prominent politicians to be serious enough about their political views that they might well be really strongly biased towards partners with the same affiliation. I mean, if you're the type of person who is going to end up in Congress as a Republican, you probably eat and drink Republican politics to the point where no-one who isn't also a keen Republican could stand living with you. You're also going to be asking your partner to support you in a lot of ways, or at least to tolerate you being awfully busy for your political cause. They're not likely to do that if they don't they share your vision.

So if you're a Republican office-holder, I would indeed expect that your partner is going to be a staunch Republican, too. If you're a Black Republican office-holder, that means your partner is going to be drawn from an overwhelmingly White pool. Other reasons for tending to find a White partner may conceivably exist, but this simple reason seems likely to be the overwhelmingly predominant one, to the point where it probably isn't worth thinking about those other reasons because it will be hopeless to find evidence for or against them when any effects they might have would be swamped by the main cause of having few Black Republicans.
Yeah, as I've mentioned a couple of times now, I'm leaning towards a different explanation that has more to do with these people being "chosen" from the political party to represent them. (I've tried changing the title of this thread but it doesn't let me anymore).

So, basically, if you're a racist and you want to prove you're not a racist, then you befriend black people just to prove that point. I think we all know some people do actually do this. Likewise, if you adhere to a racist political party and want to prove you're not part of a racist political party, then you appoint black people to publicly represent the party. But if you're going to do that, you need to play it safe. You don't want black people who identify with black America in general, because black America mostly identifies with Democrats. You don't want to risk appointing someone with (potentially) deeply seeded Liberal beliefs. You want black people who serve the main purpose of being black, but are far less likely to flip on you. So you go with the highly educated black guy who married a rich white woman and someone who has little to no experience with the kinds of systemic racism that hinders progress for most African Americans. This might not actually be the case for every black husband married to a white wife, but that perception is still there.

I'm frankly surprised no one else has seemed to pick up on this, and Black Liberals haven't really used it to argue against folks like Candace Owens and others who purport to represent Black America when in reality they've married into a very privileged system that has them serving the other side as "quislings" as Doc put it. But I suppose that's just another variant of calling someone an Uncle Tom.
"I am not an American ... In my view premarital sex should be illegal ...(there are) mentally challenged people with special needs like myself- Ajax18
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