Do some Black people resent their own race?

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Kishkumen
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Re: Do some Black people resent their own race?

Post by Kishkumen »

It’s totally natural for human beings to be attracted to other human beings. I don’t see what the big deal is.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
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Re: Do some Black people resent their own race?

Post by Vēritās »

Kishkumen wrote:
Wed May 17, 2023 11:03 am
It’s totally natural for human beings to be attracted to other human beings. I don’t see what the big deal is.
Nothing wrong with that. Just pointing out the curious trend where they are more than overrepresented and I assume there is a reason for it when this happens. I don't know the reason, but I doubt its just that white Republicans are more sexually attracted to black people. Overall I think black on white marital relationships account for something like 12% of all marital relationships. One should expect that to be around the same among all demographics, but when it comes to the curious case of Black Republicans becoming PR figures and/or political activists for an ideology that pushes for policies that harm Black Americans, that in and of itself seems quite strange. But even stranger is that 12% across all groups suddenly jumps to 90%+.
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Do some Black people resent their own race?

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Hrm. Revisiting this thread made me take a look at the last two black Congressional reps Utah elected. Here’s Burgess Owens:

Image

They divorced in 2012 according to his his wiki profile. This missive from his ex is also noteworthy:
Burgess and I have remained friends, but our philosophico-political leanings are diametrically opposed. I, in no way, support his political beliefs and, frankly, believe he has gone off the deep end. Although I will always love him, I cannot, in good faith, have a friendship with him and this saddens me.
And then Mia Love who was the GOP rep before him:

Image

by the way, both have lovely families from what I can see online.

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Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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Re: Do some Black people resent their own race?

Post by Vēritās »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Wed May 17, 2023 4:58 pm
Hrm. Revisiting this thread made me take a look at the last two black Congressional reps Utah elected. Here’s Burgess Owens:
How could I forget about Juan Williams of FOX?

Image

I don't know, but I get the sense that inherently racist organizations tend to put black people up front as PR. Republican party, Mormonism, and hell even the Proud Boys made the darkest man in their group their leader, just so their defenders could use that as a talking point. "How can a white supremacist organization be led by a Latino?"

I remember about 20 years ago FAIR had one black member, Rene Olsen, and they had her do a presentation at a FAIR conference. The subject? "Blacks in the Priesthood." I was like, seriously? This person has no background as an apologist or a scholar on anything relating to this subject, but because she's black, it gives the impression that there is no way Mormonism is racist. I mean hell, black people are defending it!

Just the other day FOX news decided it wanted to respond to the Jordan Neely killing, so who did they put on the Jesse Watters show? A far right conservative who was an obscure name MMA fighter. Why did they think his opinion mattered? Well, he was black of course.

There is clearly a high demand for black people but you can't just put any black person up there. You have to have black people with certain opinions, and perhaps more importantly, people who are very loyal to those opinions. You don't want someone who is going to at some point sway in the other direction or change their political philosophy on certain issues like Geraldo Rivera does from time to time. So I think when Republicans choose black Republicans to run for office, they're not looking for black people married to other black people or black people who are better representatives of what Black America is like. They want black people THEY themselves can identify with more. And I think it has the added benefit of being the case that these black people are out of touch with black America in general, which for their political purposes is a good thing.
"I am not an American ... In my view premarital sex should be illegal ...(there are) mentally challenged people with special needs like myself- Ajax18
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Re: Do some Black people resent their own race?

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

A black guy posted this thought on Reddit:
I keep comparing them to quislings from the book World War Z by Max Brooks.

In the book, quislings, taken from Norwegian politician Vidkun Quisling who assisted Nazi Germany in conquering Norway, are people who became so fearful of the zombies that they broke and in an attempt to appease them, they started acting like zombies. They walked like them, moaned, killed and consumed living creatures, and even gained the ability to no longer feel fear or pain or anything. They were easier to kill than a zombie as they didn't require the head shot, and were easier to detect as animals didn't panic and flee from them, their wounds were either still bleeding or were infected, and they blinked, so shining a flashlight in their face was a way to tell the difference as humans may not be able to tell.

But zombies could always tell. And many quislings were killed by zombies, never screaming, never feeling anything as they were ripped apart by the very creature they were trying to appease, to belong to but never could.

The idea that if I, as a member of the LGBTQ community, or a black person, a Hispanic person, a veteran, a woman, or middle or lower class, support the GOP, they'll see me as one of "the good ones" and I will benefit from this because I could be allowed exceptions to their policies is ridiculous. They will not spare you. They will grant NO ONE an exception unless it is one of THEM needing to make something go away because it effects THEM. You mean NOTHING to THEM except that you are stupid enough to believe their lies, their promises.

You are the quisling in the zombie horde that is the GOP. And they will tear you apart like it was NOTHING TO THEM.
Bolding mine.

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Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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Kishkumen
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Re: Do some Black people resent their own race?

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Race is an extremely complicated topic, and I think it is difficult to conclude that all Republicans are racist or that Black Republicans who marry white people hate their own race. I think it is fair to say that race has been politicized to the point that there is a split in the Black community over what it means to be Black and how that interacts with politics. I can see Black Republicans getting to where they are because they hate liberal rhetoric and policies regarding race. It is not a case of hating their own race so much as hating what they believe progressivism makes Blackness into.

Given the fact that the number of Black conservatives is really small, who is in their dating pool? It is clear that the kind of political conviction that allows a Black person to identify openly as Republican would make such a person undesirable to the majority of potential Black partners. Such a person ends up hanging out mostly with white people and waddyaknow? Interracial marriage.
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Re: Do some Black people resent their own race?

Post by Vēritās »

Kishkumen wrote:
Thu May 18, 2023 11:15 am
Race is an extremely complicated topic, and I think it is difficult to conclude that all Republicans are racist or that Black Republicans who marry white people hate their own race.
Agreed.

Which is why I'm leaning towards other explanations for this.
I can see Black Republicans getting to where they are because they hate liberal rhetoric and policies regarding race. It is not a case of hating their own race so much as hating what they believe progressivism makes Blackness into.
Hmmm. Which is what?
Given the fact that the number of Black conservatives is really small, who is in their dating pool? It is clear that the kind of political conviction that allows a Black person to identify openly as Republican would make such a person undesirable to the majority of potential Black partners. Such a person ends up hanging out mostly with white people and waddyaknow? Interracial marriage.
I like that theory. And it would also include the premise that black Conservatives have some level of detachment from their own racial culture.
"I am not an American ... In my view premarital sex should be illegal ...(there are) mentally challenged people with special needs like myself- Ajax18
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Kishkumen
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Re: Do some Black people resent their own race?

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Vēritās wrote:
Thu May 18, 2023 11:55 pm
Hmmm. Which is what?
I don’t know exactly. I have heard GOP rhetoric about the “Democratic plantation” or what have you. The key thing here is that they might be inclined to buy into this rhetoric and see the progressive concept of Blackness as something they do not like or want to identify with.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
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Re: Do some Black people resent their own race?

Post by Vēritās »

Kishkumen wrote:
Fri May 19, 2023 2:05 am
Vēritās wrote:
Thu May 18, 2023 11:55 pm
Hmmm. Which is what?
I don’t know exactly. I have heard GOP rhetoric about the “Democratic plantation” or what have you. The key thing here is that they might be inclined to buy into this rhetoric and see the progressive concept of Blackness as something they do not like or want to identify with.
Oh well that's definitely true. And Biden's idiotic "you ain't black" remark didn't help.
"I am not an American ... In my view premarital sex should be illegal ...(there are) mentally challenged people with special needs like myself- Ajax18
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Re: Do some Black people resent their own race?

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I'm not convinced that I'm seeing a phenomenon that requires any kind of explanation. I think the base rate fallacy is in play.

I'm going to use the word "partner" to mean spouse or spousal equivalent.

Let's assume that choosing a partner involved no racial or political preference or bias at all. All other things being equal, what percentage of black folks should we expect to have non-black partners?

Well, about 28% of Americans identify as Republican (as opposed to Democratic or independent). https://news.gallup.com/poll/467897/par ... epublicans.

Of that 28% of Americans, only about 2% are black. https://news.gallup.com/poll/160373/dem ... white.aspx

Let's assume that choosing a partner is race neutral -- there is no bias in favor or against any race, including one's own. Let's also assume that people choose partners who are of the same political party identification. Everything else being equal, we would expect that .6% of black republicans would have black spouses. That's only 6 out of 1000.

Now, that six out of 1000 represents the lower bound. If partner selection is subject to some racial bias and the bias toward political affiliation is less than 100%, the percentage will increase. You can play with the numbers. But, given that we are not just talking about black folks who consider themselves Republicans but folks who are either politicians or high profile influencers, I suspect that the role of political affiliation in partner selection is pretty close to 100%.

The non-random selection of examples we've seen here is completely explained by the very small percentage of black folks who identify as Republican and that political affiliation plays a very strong role in partner selection. No hating one's own race or any other psychological speculation is necessary.
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