I did not delete any of doubtingthomas’s posts. The post he is claiming I deleted is right here: viewtopic.php?p=2832846#p2832846
I did spend an entire morning cleaning up the board after DT’s latest meltdown. I moved posts and merged posts into existing threads. To make sure that I did not delete something unintentionally, I just went through the log from that morning. I did not delete any post.
We knew already. You mod people are very consistent.
The MGTOW definition is a very funny definition but if it's spot on, there are degrees of nuance. Thinking Ape, who DT referenced, would still be an example. However, his message changes from shrill whining to despondent and articulate whining. From "women suck" to "men and women just aren't compatible" (but men are probably right). Another MGTOW guy I ran into on YouTube I imagine typified what MGTOW is supposed to be about. He only had a single video, and he prefaced it as a report on 20 years of MGTOW. Here's the life he's had as a self-identified MGTOW guy, and if you find it inspiring, then consider the option. Doubt I can find it because this was ~2019.
He looked like a cool semi-hippie, and I imagine had no problems dating. He barely talked about his relationships. The story was mostly the places he lived in. He moved to the middle-east and had all kinds of crazy stories like, the family (If I recall correctly) of his Moslem girlfriend hunting him down to kill him. He also spent years in China. He only talked about mid-term type relationships. It seems like he'd move to a new place, find a girlfriend, have a good time and then "See ya!" move on to the next place. He finally moved back home. Never said anything bad about the girls. "She was a fun girl and we had a good time" was the usual. If I recall correctly his claim to fame was he got lucky with an investment when he was younger and that got him started on his world adventures. But there was something shady about it, like, he stiffed a failing bank on a huge loan, or something like that. So he felt he had deep insight into world finance and became a self-taught economic historian. He self-published a book on economic history. And so his pitch was that by staying single he had all these adventures he might not have had; he had time to do his research for that book, and he had more money and financial security than otherwise.
I wasn't impressed. He was a European guy, and it's much more common for Euro dudes to work abroad than it is Americans. No college or real credentials. His career seemed like a bunch of odd jobs. from what the camera showed of his house it looked like a basic middle-class house. Yeah, he may have achieved a decent standard by living cheap, working as a non-professional for 20 years, but Ajax will eventually shoot way past him if he hasn't already. I looked up his book on Amazon and it's basically re-hashing banking conspiracies. It was peer-reviewed by (presumably) shadowy MGTOW friends from online who were in the know -- basically conspiracy theorists. But, he did sell MGTOW properly, as getting beyond relationship slavery and living for yourself.
So: was this a case of MGTOW living up to its title or deafening silence? I think it's hard to say. Sure, it could be that he understood the novelist principle of "show, don't tell" better than everyone in the movement other than himself, and he is raging mad inside. But, I think we have to give MGTOW a chance to be theoretically legitimate and not just assume it's always about whining. Atheists have a similar problem: by definition, an atheist is negatively defined against God, just like MGTOW is against relationships. It's very possible, if the human institution of God is a scam, the next on the list in terms of longevity and social sanctity, the human institution of man-women bliss (or person-person bliss) is at the very least on the chopping block while we heft the weighty axe in due consideration. If I were a transhumanist, which I'm not because I'm not a humanist, my starting point would be the obviously broken framework of two-party, long-term romantic relationships. Ironically, WGTOW is more of a real thing in my opinion, which is part of the stimulus for the anger of MGTOW. I think as women gain greater economic power, on average, they are fine actually going their own way and without obsessively talking about it.
This is really going on in length, but to answer DT's earlier charge that by something I said, women over 40 by themselves and without kids (or something like that), are also losers. Well, in general, the tendency for WGTOW to not be losers while MGTOWs are, is the fact that they are okay with it. If they were picky enough that they could never find what they wanted but are satisfied being where they are at, then they are far less likely to be a loser than the male equivalent screaming on the internet like Linus with his security blanket stripped from him.
The MGTOW definition is a very funny definition but if it's spot on, there are degrees of nuance. Thinking Ape, who DT referenced, would still be an example. However, his message changes from shrill whining to despondent and articulate whining. From "women suck" to "men and women just aren't compatible" (but men are probably right). Another MGTOW guy I ran into on YouTube I imagine typified what MGTOW is supposed to be about. He only had a single video, and he prefaced it as a report on 20 years of MGTOW. Here's the life he's had as a self-identified MGTOW guy, and if you find it inspiring, then consider the option. Doubt I can find it because this was ~2019.
He looked like a cool semi-hippie, and I imagine had no problems dating. He barely talked about his relationships. The story was mostly the places he lived in. He moved to the middle-east and had all kinds of crazy stories like, the family (If I recall correctly) of his Moslem girlfriend hunting him down to kill him. He also spent years in China. He only talked about mid-term type relationships. It seems like he'd move to a new place, find a girlfriend, have a good time and then "See ya!" move on to the next place. He finally moved back home. Never said anything bad about the girls. "She was a fun girl and we had a good time" was the usual. If I recall correctly his claim to fame was he got lucky with an investment when he was younger and that got him started on his world adventures. But there was something shady about it, like, he stiffed a failing bank on a huge loan, or something like that. So he felt he had deep insight into world finance and became a self-taught economic historian. He self-published a book on economic history. And so his pitch was that by staying single he had all these adventures he might not have had; he had time to do his research for that book, and he had more money and financial security than otherwise.
I wasn't impressed. He was a European guy, and it's much more common for Euro dudes to work abroad than it is Americans. No college or real credentials. His career seemed like a bunch of odd jobs. from what the camera showed of his house it looked like a basic middle-class house. Yeah, he may have achieved a decent standard by living cheap, working as a non-professional for 20 years, but Ajax will eventually shoot way past him if he hasn't already. I looked up his book on Amazon and it's basically re-hashing banking conspiracies. It was peer-reviewed by (presumably) shadowy MGTOW friends from online who were in the know -- basically conspiracy theorists. But, he did sell MGTOW properly, as getting beyond relationship slavery and living for yourself.
So: was this a case of MGTOW living up to its title or deafening silence? I think it's hard to say. Sure, it could be that he understood the novelist principle of "show, don't tell" better than everyone in the movement other than himself, and he is raging mad inside. But, I think we have to give MGTOW a chance to be theoretically legitimate and not just assume it's always about whining. Atheists have a similar problem: by definition, an atheist is negatively defined against God, just like MGTOW is against relationships. It's very possible, if the human institution of God is a scam, the next on the list in terms of longevity and social sanctity, the human institution of man-women bliss (or person-person bliss) is at the very least on the chopping block while we heft the weighty axe in due consideration. If I were a transhumanist, which I'm not because I'm not a humanist, my starting point would be the obviously broken framework of two-party, long-term romantic relationships. Ironically, WGTOW is more of a real thing in my opinion, which is part of the stimulus for the anger of MGTOW. I think as women gain greater economic power, on average, they are fine actually going their own way and without obsessively talking about it.
This is really going on in length, but to answer DT's earlier charge that by something I said, women over 40 by themselves and without kids (or something like that), are also losers. Well, in general, the tendency for WGTOW to not be losers while MGTOWs are, is the fact that they are okay with it. If they were picky enough that they could never find what they wanted but are satisfied being where they are at, then they are far less likely to be a loser than the male equivalent screaming on the internet like Linus with his security blanket stripped from him.
Great story Gad, and I will concede the nuances in the definitions. Your point about hearing about MGTOW v. hearing about WGTOW captures that point well. Maybe it would help DT to read more stories about MGTOW like the one above, instead of only reading and coming here to report the topics that are sexist or misogynistic in nature.
