Deep State Strikes Again

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honorentheos
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Re: Deep State Strikes Again

Post by honorentheos »

The issue with not doing the right thing, even when ones political opposition ignores doing it themselves, is controlling what then fills the vacuum abandoning the rule of law leaves behind.
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Doctor Steuss
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Re: Deep State Strikes Again

Post by Doctor Steuss »

Another instance of the liberal deep state weaponization of the FBI to target conservatives...
The FBI used a controversial foreign surveillance authority in 2020 to investigate whether protesters involved in the Black Lives Matter movement had ties to terrorists, according to two reports declassified Friday.

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/05/1 ... s-00097924
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Re: Deep State Strikes Again

Post by Gunnar »

Some Schmo wrote:
Sat May 13, 2023 3:13 pm
The problem with finding decent candidates, in my opinion, is that the people interested in getting into politics have no desire to actually serve in government. They're there for the power and perks. They like making speeches and public appearances, getting views on Twitter. They are characters in a dystopian play, not really a governing body.

If you're a smart, decent person, it's unlikely you're interested in associating with American politicians, because they are generally disingenuous people. You couldn't confidently trust anyone you worked with. Not only that, but associating with one party or the other automatically sets half the country against you. Who wants to sign up for that?

The most qualified people for the job have no interest in it, so we're stuck with assholes.
This reminds me of a science fiction novel (I think by Isaac Asimov) which portrayed a future society in which the world's President or highest ranking leader was not elected by popular vote but selected and compulsorily drafted for a prescribed term by a supercomputer evaluating them based on a proven record of leadership, knowledge, honesty, public service and problem-solving abilities. However, anyone who had ever actually publicly aspired to hold the job, was automatically disqualified, no matter how well-qualified they otherwise were. If they obviously failed to make a good faith effort to perform up to expectations during their term of office, they were punished by having to serve another term.
No precept or claim is more suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
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Re: Deep State Strikes Again

Post by Gunnar »

ajax18 wrote:
Sun May 14, 2023 4:35 pm
So you're not allowing us to secede out of your own altruistic feelings for the deplorables you curse and despise. Can you understand why we might be skeptical of that? My prayer is that the democratic socialist can get together and implement their policies while those who believe capitalism is the better system can segregate and implement their policies. Then we can see which works better. Just maybe both groups of people of opposing ideologies will be happier than they are now? Do you think that's impossibe?
Like it or not, ajax, it has already been compellingly demonstrated that democratic socialism works better than what you prefer, by the documented fact that blue states, on average, have higher standards of living, better health care, higher life expectancies, lower infant mortality rates, higher average educational levels, etc. than red states, while red states have the highest poverty rates, higher obvious corruption, highest percentage of citizens on welfare and even higher violent crime rates compared to blue states. Even more compelling is that countries with democratic socialist type governments with universal healthcare have the highest per capita standards of living, lowest poverty rates, best (yet least expensive) healthcare, highest life expectancies, lowest infant mortality rates, highest happiness indices in the world, lowest violent crime rates, etc.

There is simply no way you can continue to deny or ignore these facts and evidence without further underscoring your own ignorance, dishonesty and/or bigotry!

ETA: I am by no means endorsing communism here. I agree with you that communism (especially as envisaged by the former USSR) has failed miserably everywhere it has been tried. Democratic Socialism that allows for and encourages honest and reasonably regulated entrepreneurship and free enterprise and innovation is, I believe, the best way to govern and leads to the happiest and most productive and even freest (I firmly believe) societies. It is certainly better than completely unregulated, laisses-faire capitalism, which is potentially every bit as bad or worse than the most brutal, authoritarian despotisms, communistic or otherwise.
No precept or claim is more suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
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ajax18
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Re: Deep State Strikes Again

Post by ajax18 »

Gunnar wrote:
Sat May 20, 2023 5:59 am
ajax18 wrote:
Sun May 14, 2023 4:35 pm
So you're not allowing us to secede out of your own altruistic feelings for the deplorables you curse and despise. Can you understand why we might be skeptical of that? My prayer is that the democratic socialist can get together and implement their policies while those who believe capitalism is the better system can segregate and implement their policies. Then we can see which works better. Just maybe both groups of people of opposing ideologies will be happier than they are now? Do you think that's impossibe?
Like it or not, ajax, it has already been compellingly demonstrated that democratic socialism works better than what you prefer, by the documented fact that blue states, on average, have higher standards of living, better health care, higher life expectancies, lower infant mortality rates, higher average educational levels, etc. than red states, while red states have the highest poverty rates, higher obvious corruption, highest percentage of citizens on welfare and even higher violent crime rates compared to blue states. Even more compelling is that countries with democratic socialist type governments with universal healthcare have the highest per capita standards of living, lowest poverty rates, best (yet least expensive) healthcare, highest life expectancies, lowest infant mortality rates, highest happiness indices in the world, lowest violent crime rates, etc.

There is simply no way you can continue to deny or ignore these facts and evidence without further underscoring your own ignorance, dishonesty and/or bigotry!

ETA: I am by no means endorsing communism here. I agree with you that communism (especially as envisaged by the former USSR) has failed miserably everywhere it has been tried. Democratic Socialism that allows for and encourages honest and reasonably regulated entrepreneurship and free enterprise and innovation is, I believe, the best way to govern and leads to the happiest and most productive and even freest (I firmly believe) societies. It is certainly better than completely unregulated, laisses-faire capitalism, which is potentially every bit as bad or worse than the most brutal, authoritarian despotisms, communistic or otherwise.
I'll concede that the kind of socialism we see in Scandanavia is not the same as the kind we saw in the USSR. People still have incentives to work hard in Scandinavia other than guilt shaming and altruism. That's why it works better.

For the sake of argument let's say you're right that Democratic socialism is better. You're still usurping the agency and consent of the governed by refusing to allow for separate countries for people of separate ideologies based on your liberal elitism that you know better what's good for people than they know for themselves. Maybe you do, but that's not respecting individual liberty. In fact it's, authoritarianism and tyranny. Why can't you just respect God given individual liberties? Why do you have to be lord and master over people who disagree with your ideology? We're obviously of no use to you? Why not just release us?
And when the Confederates saw Jackson standing fearless like a stonewall, the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
honorentheos
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Re: Deep State Strikes Again

Post by honorentheos »

No one is holding you captive, ajax. What you claim to want isn't a logical proposition. It's a fantasy built on propoganda. It's akin to a teenager wishing all grownups would disappear so they can live in their parents house as if nothing would be affected other than they aren't responsible to other people in any way.
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Re: Deep State Strikes Again

Post by Res Ipsa »

ajax18 wrote:
Sat May 20, 2023 5:01 pm
Gunnar wrote:
Sat May 20, 2023 5:59 am

Like it or not, ajax, it has already been compellingly demonstrated that democratic socialism works better than what you prefer, by the documented fact that blue states, on average, have higher standards of living, better health care, higher life expectancies, lower infant mortality rates, higher average educational levels, etc. than red states, while red states have the highest poverty rates, higher obvious corruption, highest percentage of citizens on welfare and even higher violent crime rates compared to blue states. Even more compelling is that countries with democratic socialist type governments with universal healthcare have the highest per capita standards of living, lowest poverty rates, best (yet least expensive) healthcare, highest life expectancies, lowest infant mortality rates, highest happiness indices in the world, lowest violent crime rates, etc.

There is simply no way you can continue to deny or ignore these facts and evidence without further underscoring your own ignorance, dishonesty and/or bigotry!

ETA: I am by no means endorsing communism here. I agree with you that communism (especially as envisaged by the former USSR) has failed miserably everywhere it has been tried. Democratic Socialism that allows for and encourages honest and reasonably regulated entrepreneurship and free enterprise and innovation is, I believe, the best way to govern and leads to the happiest and most productive and even freest (I firmly believe) societies. It is certainly better than completely unregulated, laisses-faire capitalism, which is potentially every bit as bad or worse than the most brutal, authoritarian despotisms, communistic or otherwise.
I'll concede that the kind of socialism we see in Scandanavia is not the same as the kind we saw in the USSR. People still have incentives to work hard in Scandinavia other than guilt shaming and altruism. That's why it works better.

For the sake of argument let's say you're right that Democratic socialism is better. You're still usurping the agency and consent of the governed by refusing to allow for separate countries for people of separate ideologies based on your liberal elitism that you know better what's good for people than they know for themselves. Maybe you do, but that's not respecting individual liberty. In fact it's, authoritarianism and tyranny. Why can't you just respect God given individual liberties? Why do you have to be lord and master over people who disagree with your ideology? We're obviously of no use to you? Why not just release us?
Consent of governed doesn't mean that each citizen who disagrees with the current political makeup of government officials gets their own country. You've confused the concept of "consent of the governed" with "I get my own way no matter what."
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When I go to sea, don’t fear for me. Fear for the storm.

Jessica Best, Fear for the Storm. From The Strange Case of the Starship Iris.
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Kishkumen
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Re: Deep State Strikes Again

Post by Kishkumen »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Fri May 12, 2023 6:17 pm
Trump has essentially said, “If you follow me, you are on my team - and you’re relieved of all manner of moral and ethical constraints, and are authorized to follow the ones I give you."

This enables all sorts of ‘off’ behavior from the followers. Leaders can dupe them into this unspoken contractual agreement, allowing them to be relieved of the pressure of having to act in alignment with the law or even the morals taught to them throughout life.

What's scarier is that once bought in, they will fight, sometimes to the death, to defend their new behavior, because the pain of having to return to their normal moral code can be so traumatic once they've lived without these morals for a while, and especially if they've made an open, public commitment to them, to return to 'normal' isn't just silently returning, but having to admit to yourself and others what you did while you were following the leader was uncivil and shamefully hypocritical.

Quite often they won't snap out of it until the system they thought would elevate them instead overtakes them, and they’re personally impacted in a way that hurts. For example, an outspoken Second Amendment p@TrIoT, who’s been 100% pro-gun may lose a child due to a bullet, or an anti-abortion woman gets pregnant at a terrible time, or a guy gets fired because he lives in an at-will state. Even then many, if not most, will just double down because being wrong is worse than someone else being right.

- Doc
You see this kind of thing with soldiers and generals in Roman history.
"By the way when RFM (Consiglieri) and I covered the 2nd Watson Letter, I had a listener who knows Watson personally and Watson who is still alive confirmed there was no second letter." ~Bill Reel
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ajax18
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Re: Deep State Strikes Again

Post by ajax18 »

honorentheos wrote:
Sat May 20, 2023 5:19 pm
No one is holding you captive, ajax. What you claim to want isn't a logical proposition. It's a fantasy built on propoganda. It's akin to a teenager wishing all grownups would disappear so they can live in their parents house as if nothing would be affected other than they aren't responsible to other people in any way.
Then why doesn't the US invade and conquer the parts of the world where slavery and humans rights violations are happening right now? i.e. China, Africa, etc?
And when the Confederates saw Jackson standing fearless like a stonewall, the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Deep State Strikes Again

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

ajax18 wrote:
Sat May 20, 2023 9:58 pm
honorentheos wrote:
Sat May 20, 2023 5:19 pm
No one is holding you captive, ajax. What you claim to want isn't a logical proposition. It's a fantasy built on propoganda. It's akin to a teenager wishing all grownups would disappear so they can live in their parents house as if nothing would be affected other than they aren't responsible to other people in any way.
Then why doesn't the US invade and conquer the parts of the world where slavery and humans rights violations are happening right now? i.e. China, Africa, etc?
You're not a serious man. -_-
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