Racist Karen steals black youths bike

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Chap
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Re: Racist Karen steals black youths bike

Post by Chap »

ajax18 wrote:
Sat May 20, 2023 7:39 pm
This isn't a court of law. We're not kings handing down a judgment. I'm just looking for what kind of judgment people of different political ideologies would make given the fact patterns I presented. Hypotheticals are sufficient for our purposes here.
But the situation is not an imaginary one in a law textbook or a moot; it involves real people.

Do you not understand why board members might find it distasteful to commit themselves to saying condemnatory things about one or other of the parties involved on a hypothetical basis purely to satisfy your curiosity?
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Kishkumen
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Re: Racist Karen steals black youths bike

Post by Kishkumen »

ajax18 wrote:
Sat May 20, 2023 5:05 pm
Do you think she has a strong civil claim for defamation against NBC and a claim against the hospital for suspending her without pay? Would you voter for her to recover anything if you were on the jury or would you say she has no claim?

Do you think the African American teens should be charged with attempted robbery or would their claim that they thought they had paid for the bike absolve them of any criminal exposure? I remember Mr. Scratch explained to me that racism and reverse racism should never be on equal footing. Do you also espouse the idea of different set of rules for blacks and whites because of the USA's history and current level of systemic racism?

Let's say the pregnant woman didn't have a receipt or she was just having a case of pregnant brain and mistaken. In your opinion should she have fired? In your opinion should conservative media have been sued for covering the story in error, becuase white black racism and reverse racism shouldn't be on equal footing?

ETA: One more question, if the woman were not white but rather Russian or another European immigrant, would she be judged under the same standard as a descendant of confederates like myself because of our similar level of pigmentation or would she be under a different standard because of her heritage? What if the woman were of mixed race, what set of rules should then be applied to her in this case?
My #1 rule in life is to avoid causing problems for other people. I hope her employer comes to their senses and apologizes to her for putting her on leave without properly investigating the story. The young men should be reprimanded by family and friends for being rude to a pregnant woman. People should stop reading these crap stories that amount to front porch gossip on a Saturday afternoon that is feeding off of our worst instincts as busybodies.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Racist Karen steals black youths bike

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

ajax18 wrote:
Sat May 20, 2023 6:48 pm
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Sat May 20, 2023 6:12 pm


Read this and get back to us:

https://Twitter.com/thejournalista/stat ... 8347745280

Do you believe it's possible her lawyer is lying or misconstruing these receipts as proof that his client is a victim of black hoodlums picking on this white victim?

Read that Twitter thread and get back to us.

- Doc
Ok I read it. So it all hinges on whether her lawyer is lying about the receipts or not? Since we don't know, can you answer my hypothetical questions about how in yours and kishkumen's judgment this should play out given the alternate fact patterns I presented?

Have you seen anywhere if the black guy had a receipt for the bike? Is he claiming he already paid for the bike? Shouldn't he have it on his credit card record?
I'll answer your questions when you actually answer mine.

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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ajax18
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Re: Racist Karen steals black youths bike

Post by ajax18 »

ajax18 wrote:
Sat May 20, 2023 7:39 pm
Chap wrote:
Sat May 20, 2023 7:20 pm


It would make a lot more sense to wait until the facts have been established before continuing with this discussion, surely?
Why? This isn't a court of law. We're not kings handing down a judgment. I'm just looking for what kind of judgment people of different political ideologies would make given the fact patterns I presented. Hypotheticals are sufficient for our purposes here.
Was it distasteful of the woman's employer to heed the calls of the left and suspend her at the behest of the liberal mob before all the facts came out?

Kevin Graham explained it well during the Jacob Blake case. It wasn't a lie for CNN to say Jacob Blake was unarmed when the police officer shot him while he was resisting arrest because it was only revealed later that Blake was armed when resisting arrest. While inflammatory and likely to incite a national BLM riot upon American citizens and businesses, there was no waiting for the facts to come out before beginning to fan the flames. We don't have 0.001% the audience nor platform that CNN has here so what exactly is so distasteful about commenting on this hypothetical other than it cuts against the narrative you seek to advance rather than strengthen it? Ben Crump saw nothing distasteful about labeling the woman a white supremacist based on the limited fact pattern we currently have. Let's be honest you only memory hole he/said she/said cases based on a question of facts (that often remain in dispute forever) or fear of inciting riots when the current fact pattern cuts against your world view. It shouldn't surprise me that the only comment I'll ever hear from any case of reverse racism is to dispute the facts. If you accept the facts than that would mean admitting that reverse racism exists not just among common powerless people but people at the highest levels of many American institutions.
And when the Confederates saw Jackson standing fearless like a stonewall, the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
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ajax18
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Re: Racist Karen steals black youths bike

Post by ajax18 »

Kishkumen wrote:
Sat May 20, 2023 9:23 pm
ajax18 wrote:
Sat May 20, 2023 5:05 pm
Do you think she has a strong civil claim for defamation against NBC and a claim against the hospital for suspending her without pay? Would you voter for her to recover anything if you were on the jury or would you say she has no claim?

Do you think the African American teens should be charged with attempted robbery or would their claim that they thought they had paid for the bike absolve them of any criminal exposure? I remember Mr. Scratch explained to me that racism and reverse racism should never be on equal footing. Do you also espouse the idea of different set of rules for blacks and whites because of the USA's history and current level of systemic racism?

Let's say the pregnant woman didn't have a receipt or she was just having a case of pregnant brain and mistaken. In your opinion should she have fired? In your opinion should conservative media have been sued for covering the story in error, becuase white black racism and reverse racism shouldn't be on equal footing?

ETA: One more question, if the woman were not white but rather Russian or another European immigrant, would she be judged under the same standard as a descendant of confederates like myself because of our similar level of pigmentation or would she be under a different standard because of her heritage? What if the woman were of mixed race, what set of rules should then be applied to her in this case?
My #1 rule in life is to avoid causing problems for other people. I hope her employer comes to their senses and apologizes to her for putting her on leave without properly investigating the story. The young men should be reprimanded by family and friends for being rude to a pregnant woman. People should stop reading these crap stories that amount to front porch gossip on a Saturday afternoon that is feeding off of our worst instincts as busybodies.
Fair enough. Thanks for answering and recognizing people getting fired from their job/cancelled over stuff like this needs to stop or at least judgment should be withheld until it is adjudicated.
And when the Confederates saw Jackson standing fearless like a stonewall, the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
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Kishkumen
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Re: Racist Karen steals black youths bike

Post by Kishkumen »

Fair enough. Thanks for answering and recognizing people getting fired from their job/cancelled over stuff like this needs to stop or at least judgment should be withheld until it is adjudicated.
Yeah, no firing without good cause.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
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ajax18
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Re: Racist Karen steals black youths bike

Post by ajax18 »

Do you believe it's possible her lawyer is lying or misconstruing these receipts as proof that his client is a victim of black hoodlums picking on this white victim?
Possible? Definitely. But what happens if it's proven down the road that he was lying? Would that not be an ethics violation of some sort? Could he be disbarred for that? How does that work exactly? Honest question Doc, I read that Sarah rented the bike using an app. So she should have more on the receipt than just when it was rented? Why would her lawyer be holding this back if he has it? I'm not a lawyer. Do lawyers bluff like this often? Secondly, how did the black guys pay for the bike? Why aren't they releasing proof of receipt either?
And when the Confederates saw Jackson standing fearless like a stonewall, the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
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Re: Racist Karen steals black youths bike

Post by Jersey Girl »

Kishkumen wrote:
Sat May 20, 2023 9:23 pm

My #1 rule in life is to avoid causing problems for other people. I hope her employer comes to their senses and apologizes to her for putting her on leave without properly investigating the story. The young men should be reprimanded by family and friends for being rude to a pregnant woman. People should stop reading these crap stories that amount to front porch gossip on a Saturday afternoon that is feeding off of our worst instincts as busybodies.
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Racist Karen steals black youths bike

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

ajax18 wrote:
Sat May 20, 2023 10:39 pm
Do you believe it's possible her lawyer is lying or misconstruing these receipts as proof that his client is a victim of black hoodlums picking on this white victim?
Possible? Definitely. But what happens if it's proven down the road that he was lying? Would that not be an ethics violation of some sort? Could he be disbarred for that? How does that work exactly? Honest question Doc, I read that Sarah rented the bike using an app. So she should have more on the receipt than just when it was rented? Why would her lawyer be holding this back if he has it? I'm not a lawyer. Do lawyers bluff like this often? Secondly, how did the black guys pay for the bike? Why aren't they releasing proof of receipt either?
It should be an ethics violation if he was lying. And he should face public and professional consequences that matter.

I have no idea what the black guys were up to beyond what was shown on the short clip. If the black guys attempted to steal her bike they should face public backlash commensurate to what the woman faced, and they should be charged with whatever applicable offense.

If the woman was shown to be telling the truth she should get a public apology from all sorts of people, to include the perps, her employer, and anyone who cast aspersions her way.

if the woman is shown to be lying about the circumstances and lying about the receipts, well, we all know how that's going to go and I'm ok with it.

To be honest, I feel similar to Kishkumen and I'm not a fan of public freakouts over heavily edited videos that are posted to the Internet. For example, before, during, and after BLM I feel like a lot of cops were being unfairly maligned and the judgmental crowd expects them to be perfect saints even though they're dealing with liars and criminals all day. That takes its toll on anyone, and I'm sympathetic toward law enforcement. Social media is a tool for manipulation and we all should be on constant vigilance when watching it.

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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ajax18
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Re: Racist Karen steals black youths bike

Post by ajax18 »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Sun May 21, 2023 12:03 am
ajax18 wrote:
Sat May 20, 2023 10:39 pm
Possible? Definitely. But what happens if it's proven down the road that he was lying? Would that not be an ethics violation of some sort? Could he be disbarred for that? How does that work exactly? Honest question Doc, I read that Sarah rented the bike using an app. So she should have more on the receipt than just when it was rented? Why would her lawyer be holding this back if he has it? I'm not a lawyer. Do lawyers bluff like this often? Secondly, how did the black guys pay for the bike? Why aren't they releasing proof of receipt either?
It should be an ethics violation if he was lying. And he should face public and professional consequences that matter.

I have no idea what the black guys were up to beyond what was shown on the short clip. If the black guys attempted to steal her bike they should face public backlash commensurate to what the woman faced, and they should be charged with whatever applicable offense.

If the woman was shown to be telling the truth she should get a public apology from all sorts of people, to include the perps, her employer, and anyone who cast aspersions her way.

if the woman is shown to be lying about the circumstances and lying about the receipts, well, we all know how that's going to go and I'm ok with it.

To be honest, I feel similar to Kishkumen and I'm not a fan of public freakouts over heavily edited videos that are posted to the Internet. For example, before, during, and after BLM I feel like a lot of cops were being unfairly maligned and the judgmental crowd expects them to be perfect saints even though they're dealing with liars and criminals all day. That takes its toll on anyone, and I'm sympathetic toward law enforcement. Social media is a tool for manipulation and we all should be on constant vigilance when watching it.

- Doc
So it's possible that the black guys are lying about paying for the bike as well? Why else would they be withholding proof from their credit card as you've pointed out that Sarah's lawyer is doing.

I somehow doubt we'll ever be permitted to know the truth about this.

I will say this Doc, at least you don't fall into Mr. Scratch's open endorsment of a two tiered criminal justice system based on race, gender, or political affiliation. What you said actually seems fair to me at least in this case.
And when the Confederates saw Jackson standing fearless like a stonewall, the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
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