From: Conservatives and "believing falsehoods"

[Cube 7]

I came across this yesterday, it's not the first study of its kind and its entirely unsurprising, but I have some severe disagreements with the takeaways, and have a suggestion for making a study like this better.

Conservatives more susceptible to believing falsehoods

The title of the report is inaccurate, in my opinion, and my biggest gripe is here.

For example, participants rated this true statement that received widespread social media engagement when it came out: “Investigators for the DHS Office of the Inspector General have identified poor conditions in several Texas migrant facilities, including extreme overcrowding and serious health risks.”

Results showed that 54% of Democrats correctly said that the statement was “definitely true” – compared to only 18% of Republicans.

Another statement – a false one – was “While serving as Sec. of State, Hillary Clinton colluded with Russia, selling 20% of the U.S. uranium supply to that country in exchange for donations to the Clinton Foundation.”

Here, only 2% of Democrats said this was “definitely true,” but 41% of Republicans did.

Unsurprising, of course. What is surprising is that what's going on isn't obvious to them.

Conservatives and liberals were equally good at detecting truths and falsehoods when most true stories were labeled politically neutral.

Not surprising to me but it might be surprising to some.

The study's creator says:

We show that the media environment is shaping people’s ability to do this very basic, fundamental task. Democracy depends on people being able to tell the difference between what is true and false and it falters when people have difficulty agreeing on what’s real,” he said.

I totally disagree.

Judging by the quotes I've provided it's clear the study needs to be redone. The basic format of the study seems okay, but they are going to need some funding, they need to incentivize getting the right answers. They need to pay people for getting the right answers. Where the study will be most informative will be with lesser-educated people who could use a few extra bucks. Some people need to be offered a dollar for every correct political answer, another group offered 5$, another 10$, and if funding is available, go up to at least 50$ per correct political answer.

From what I'm hearing, Rudy Giuliani is having an easier time differentiating between truths and falsehoods along with his changing incentives for believing certain political claims.

We saw that viral political falsehoods tended to benefit conservatives, while truths tended to favor liberals. That makes it a lot harder for conservatives to avoid misperceptions,” Garrett said

Again, this guy needs a talking to. We don't know the bolded yet, because we don't know whether they are "misperceiving" something or intentionally answering contrary to what they really believe. The mean way of putting it is that conservatives instinctively know when to lie in order to promote their common cause. A nicer way to put would be to point out that conservatives tend to be religious in nature and "truth" in religion has different meanings. "Truth Social" isn't called truth social over concern with truth in the scientific sense, but truth in the "my truth" sense, the personal testimony sense. It's a "free speech" kind of truth, something is "true" in a sense if the person passionately believes it -- or at least passionately says it.

To use a metaphor from the world of investing, we might say liberals are more like value investors while conservatives are more like momentum investors. The hope, of course, is that fundamentals win in the long run, but we've seen from the investing world itself just how powerful meme trading can be, and like reddit users piling on Game Stop and breaking markets, conservatives may very well break democracy before reality settles all scores. Don't underestimate the power of momentum.

From the progressive Bible. "Man can become Woman and Woman can become Man." And if a man becomes a woman then grows tired of being a woman he can become a man again!

So who believes in falsehoods?

[Morley]

From the progressive Bible. "Man can become Woman and Woman can become Man." And if a man becomes a woman then grows tired of being a woman he can become a man again!

Two questions, Cube:

1) What does men becoming women have to do with the post you quoted?

2) Why does it matter if a man can become a woman and a woman can become a man? Why would you care?

I'm not trying to be snarky. I'm attempting to understand your post.

[Cube 7]

From the progressive Bible. "Man can become Woman and Woman can become Man." And if a man becomes a woman then grows tired of being a woman he can become a man again!

Two questions, Cube:

1) What does men becoming women have to do with the post you quoted?

2) Why does it matter if a man can become a woman and a woman can become a man? Why would you care?

I'm not trying to be snarky. I'm attempting to understand your post.

It's quite straightforward. The progressive side of the Democratic Party is responsible for the most significant fallacy that is currently being acted out right in front of our eyes, and that fallacy is the idea that a man can become a woman or a woman can become a male. This is the biggest lie that we are currently witnessing. It is not a fact, and it is being done in order for the progressive wing of the Democratic Party to control the emotions of people. By doing this, they will be able to manipulate people into thinking whatever it is that they want them to believe by using force. The democratic party is home to the greatest number of lies that are now being propagated in our modern culture. Democrats are pushing the biggest falsehoods we have had to live with in quite some time.

[Morley]

Two questions, Cube:

1) What does men becoming women have to do with the post you quoted?

2) Why does it matter if a man can become a woman and a woman can become a man? Why would you care?

I'm not trying to be snarky. I'm attempting to understand your post.

It's quite straightforward. The progressive side of the Democratic Party is responsible for the most significant fallacy that is currently being acted out right in front of our eyes, and that fallacy is the idea that a man can become a woman or a woman can become a male. This is the biggest lie that we are currently witnessing. It is not a fact, and it is being done in order for the progressive wing of the Democratic Party to control the emotions of people. By doing this, they will be able to manipulate people into thinking whatever it is that they want them to believe by using force. The democratic party is home to the greatest number of lies that are now being propagated in our modern culture. Democrats are pushing the biggest falsehoods we have had to live with in quite some time.

I'm still not sure why you would care if a man wants to present as a woman, or a woman wants don a crewcut and a pair of overalls. Is it any of our business?

Maybe you'll make a list of what you think are some of the other falsehoods?

[ceeboo]

It's quite straightforward. The progressive side of the Democratic Party is responsible for the most significant fallacy that is currently being acted out right in front of our eyes, and that fallacy is the idea that a man can become a woman or a woman can become a male. This is the biggest lie that we are currently witnessing. It is not a fact, and it is being done in order for the progressive wing of the Democratic Party to control the emotions of people. By doing this, they will be able to manipulate people into thinking whatever it is that they want them to believe by using force. The democratic party is home to the greatest number of lies that are now being propagated in our modern culture. Democrats are pushing the biggest falsehoods we have had to live with in quite some time.

I'm still not sure why you would care if a man wants to present as a woman...

Hey Morley,

Is this really about, as you suggest, a man who wants to "present" as a woman? I don't believe it is but I am open to hear you out and possibly stand corrected.

[Morley]

I'm still not sure why you would care if a man wants to present as a woman...

Hey Morley,

Is this really about, as you suggest, a man who wants to "present" as a woman? I don't believe it is but I am open to hear you out and possibly stand corrected.

Obviously, I thought so. What are you reading in what Cube has to say that I'm missing, Ceeboo? Help me see the light.

[ceeboo]

Hey Morley,

Is this really about, as you suggest, a man who wants to "present" as a woman? I don't believe it is but I am open to hear you out and possibly stand corrected.

Obviously, I thought so. What are you reading in what Cube has to say that I'm missing, Ceeboo? Help me see the light.

Well, directly because of the tremendous amount of empathy that I have for the individuals that have gender dysphoria - as well as their family/loved ones (and my personal beliefs surrounding the value of each and every human being, created by the Creator), I will be very brief with my comments.

This is about the truth claim that a woman can become a man and/or a man can become a woman. This is about laws and policies. This is about gender affirming care. This is about several things that I simply will not discuss in this community. Whether we like it or not, no matter where any of us happen to land on these issues, it has become all of our business.

[Morley]

Obviously, I thought so. What are you reading in what Cube has to say that I'm missing, Ceeboo? Help me see the light.

Well, directly because of the tremendous amount of empathy that I have for the individuals that have gender dysphoria - as well as their family/loved ones (and my personal beliefs surrounding the value of each and every human being, created by the Creator), I will be very brief with my comments.

This is about the truth claim that a woman can become a man and/or a man can become a woman. This is about laws and policies. This is about gender affirming care. This is about several things that I simply will not discuss in this community. Whether we like it or not, no matter where any of us happen to land on these issues, it has become all of our business.

I share your expressed empathy.

Gender affirming care is certainly one of the ways that a man can present as a woman. You say that it's your business how a person presents, and that it involves laws and policies, but that you won't say why, what, or how.

That's all right. Take care, Ceeboo.

[Cube 7]

It's quite straightforward. The progressive side of the Democratic Party is responsible for the most significant fallacy that is currently being acted out right in front of our eyes, and that fallacy is the idea that a man can become a woman or a woman can become a male. This is the biggest lie that we are currently witnessing. It is not a fact, and it is being done in order for the progressive wing of the Democratic Party to control the emotions of people. By doing this, they will be able to manipulate people into thinking whatever it is that they want them to believe by using force. The democratic party is home to the greatest number of lies that are now being propagated in our modern culture. Democrats are pushing the biggest falsehoods we have had to live with in quite some time.

I'm still not sure why you would care if a man wants to present as a woman, or a woman wants don a crewcut and a pair of overalls. Is it any of our business?

Maybe you'll make a list of what you think are some of the other falsehoods?

Imagine there is a collegiate swim team, and out of the eight members, seven are women, and one is a transgender woman. The 7 women range in height from 5'4" to 5'9" and weigh 135 lbs on average. The seven women's average foot size is an eight, their average wingspan is 64 inches, and the width of their hands, on average, is 6.7 inches. The transsexual woman has a height of 6 feet, 3 inches, a wingspan of 75 inches, and hand widths of 8 inches. The transsexual lady fights for the team, and at the end of the year, she has won 75% of the swimming contests and is the undisputed champion in her particular sport. Is this reasonable? The following year, the squad is composed of individuals with virtually identical statistics for each of the seven biological women. The only thing that is different is that during the middle of the swimming season, the transgender woman came to the realisation that she is now a male and that she wants to identify as what he believes he has always been. This is the only difference. That is the only modification that has taken place; the dimensions of the hands, feet, height, and weight have remained unchanged. Do you think it's necessary for this man to step down from the women's swimming team at this point? And if that is the case, then why?

Since its inception in 1996, the Women's National Basketball Association (WNBA) has hosted over a thousand games, during which time there have been a grand total of thirty dunks. Since the year 2000, there have been 169,734 dunks in the National Basketball Association (NBA). Let's imagine a transgender woman joins a WNBA team and dunks a total of 40 times in her first season with the squad. Throughout the course of the season, the transgender woman proves to be an unstoppable force on the court, and her team eventually ends up winning the WNBA title. Is it considered transphobic for the women on the other teams to believe that the team that won the championship had a biological male on it because that was the reason why they beat the team that had transgender women on it?

You keep asking why we should care about how someone else identifies, and I keep asking you the same thing. It's simple for me to say that as a man because the fact that a biological woman may choose to identify as a man in no way threatens anything I do or may choose to do in the future.

[Morley]

Imagine there is a collegiate swim team, and out of the eight members, seven are women, and one is a transgender woman. The 7 women range in height from 5'4" to 5'9" and weigh 135 lbs on average. The seven women's average foot size is an eight, their average wingspan is 64 inches, and the width of their hands, on average, is 6.7 inches. The transsexual woman has a height of 6 feet, 3 inches, a wingspan of 75 inches, and hand widths of 8 inches. The transsexual lady fights for the team, and at the end of the year, she has won 75% of the swimming contests and is the undisputed champion in her particular sport. Is this reasonable? The following year, the squad is composed of individuals with virtually identical statistics for each of the seven biological women. The only thing that is different is that during the middle of the swimming season, the transgender woman came to the realisation that she is now a male and that she wants to identify as what he believes he has always been. This is the only difference. That is the only modification that has taken place; the dimensions of the hands, feet, height, and weight have remained unchanged. Do you think it's necessary for this man to step down from the women's swimming team at this point? And if that is the case, then why?

Since its inception in 1996, the Women's National Basketball Association (WNBA) has hosted over a thousand games, during which time there have been a grand total of thirty dunks. Since the year 2000, there have been 169,734 dunks in the National Basketball Association (NBA). Let's imagine a transgender woman joins a WNBA team and dunks a total of 40 times in her first season with the squad. Throughout the course of the season, the transgender woman proves to be an unstoppable force on the court, and her team eventually ends up winning the WNBA title. Is it considered transphobic for the women on the other teams to believe that the team that won the championship had a biological male on it because that was the reason why they beat the team that had transgender women on it?

You keep asking why we should care about how someone else identifies, and I keep asking you the same thing. It's simple for me to say that as a man because the fact that a biological woman may choose to identify as a man in no way threatens anything I do or may choose to do in the future.

Down in Spirit Prison, Binger asked me pretty much the same thing. Here's a link to, and a copy of, my reply to him.

https://www.discussmormonism.com/viewto ... 4#p2839214

I'm still not sure why you would care if a man wants to present as a woman, or a woman wants don a crewcut and a pair of overalls. Is it any of our business?

Maybe you'll make a list of what you think are some of the other falsehoods?

Great question. Before he answers that though, maybe you have an answer.

If a man presents as a female cyclist, female swimmer or female power forward in the WNBA, whose business is that? Certainly not mine, but I am curious if it is anyone's business other than the man presenting as a woman. If it is not yours, not Cube's and not mine can we conclude that it is nobody's business?

Though I wasn't aware that the WNBA was grappling with this problem, I agree with you that it might potentially be a concern--and I'm certainly open to hearing your argument. At any rate, I'd imagine it's business of WNBA, since it's that organization that's regulating the sport.

Hang on. I have another question that you won't answer because I hear that trolls avoid content or something like that.

Telling me what I'm going to do and resorting to name-calling already? Ha! Go ahead and ask your question.

I'm still not sure why you would care if a girl does not want to compete against boys or a woman does not want to compete against men? Is it any of our business if a female wants to compete against females?

I certainly do care. As I believe I mentioned in another discussion on this topic, this is the one arena that I can see where there might be concerns. That said, I'm having a difficult time coming up with any areas, other than gendered sports, where this might be a worry. Do you have any others?

Does this answer your question?



edit: To sum, if transgender athletic competition in sports becomes (or is) a problem, the governing agencies should create rules to regulate that. In itself, it's not a reason to shut down the rights of adults to make decisions about how they choose to present themselves to the world.