There are things hard to fathom

[yellowstone123]

At both sides:

Is Ukraine corrupt. We’re their gain of function drug labs via Dr. Fauci in China and Ukraine. Why did Joe Biden have a prosecutor dismissed that didn’t like the the things he was hearing about Joe and Hunter Biden. Heads of congress visiting Ukraine to ensure our support. It doesn’t smell good on either side. With U.S. supporting the Ukraine it is hitting Russia with arms from the U.S.A. Russia may send the heat of the inner sun to New York and Los Angeles. I think both sides are dirty and we are being played by both sides. While Fauci makes his millions and college athletes die of heart failure.

And remember, Trump was president in January, 2020 when this whole thing started. My drinking started in February, 2020.

[huckelberry]

Yellowstone, your right wing propaganda sounds garbled up. Even your sentences here are garbled. Perhaps too much drink.

[honorentheos]

The Russian invasion of Ukraine was a direct attack against western liberal democracy. Full stop. React to that fact as you will.

[yellowstone123]

Thanks, Honor, I will.

[yellowstone123]

Too much drink is a direct accurate hit and assessment from Huckleberry. I need to cut down to almost none.

But Honor, I do had some thoughts about Western Liberal Democracy in 2023 and the state we are in today. Is is capitalism against socialism. Is collective bargaining socialism. Today I see the United Auto Workers wants to reduce their work week to 32 hrs a week, better retirement and health benefits, and increase of over 40 % immediately of daily pay. Add in their building electric vehicles and I don't see anyone but the top ten percent buying one. I said it before and I said it again. In ten years families will live in tents in the USA.

What is Western Liberal Democracy and where has it gone with 24 hour cable puppets, social media and the military industrial complex. I wrote a while back about an article in the paper where wages in Idaho wages have gone up 25 percent and rental rates have hone up 125%. Pretty soon there will be no sofas but six to 10 bunk beds per apartment.

I think Gold Meir talking about working on a Kibbutz in British Palestine in the 1920s as the happiest days of her life. No one owned Nothing. Everything was in common.

[honorentheos]

Too much drink is a direct accurate hit and assessment from Huckleberry. I need to cut down to almost none.

But Honor, I do had some thoughts about Western Liberal Democracy in 2023 and the state we are in today. Is is capitalism against socialism. Is collective bargaining socialism. Today I see the United Auto Workers wants to reduce their work week to 32 hrs a week, better retirement and health benefits, and increase of over 40 % immediately of daily pay. Add in their building electric vehicles and I don't see anyone but the top ten percent buying one. I said it before and I said it again. In ten years families will live in tents in the USA.

What is Western Liberal Democracy and where has it gone with 24 hour cable puppets, social media and the military industrial complex. I wrote a while back about an article in the paper where wages in Idaho wages have gone up 25 percent and rental rates have hone up 125%. Pretty soon there will be no sofas but six to 10 bunk beds per apartment.

I think Gold Meir talking about working on a Kibbutz in British Palestine in the 1920s as the happiest days of her life. No one owned Nothing. Everything was in common.

It's important to recognize your post is primarily about economic systems and their outcomes rather than political systems and their aims. Populism, which is antagonistic to liberal democracy, is fueled by inequality and is the narrative used by those who leverage populism for their own political purposes. But it also argues against equal protection under the law, of universal rights, against diversity and pluralism. Your comments about economics seem to be rooted in populist rhetoric. I think we should first recognize why liberal democracy is not inherently bound to capitalism as it had been for political reasons during the Cold War as part of the contrast with Soviet and Chinese communism.

You asked the salient question in your third paragraph above. What is Western Liberal Democracy? Set the rest aside because it's about economics for the moment.

Western liberal democracy is:

1) a form of democracy in which the powers of government are limited, and the freedom and rights of individuals are protected by constitutionally established norms and institutions

2) characterized by elections between multiple distinct political parties, a separation of powers into different branches of government, the rule of law in everyday life as part of an open society, a market economy with private property, universal suffrage, and the equal protection of human rights, civil rights, civil liberties and political freedoms for all people

3) governed by law rather than the will of a party or leader, typically based on a constitution to delineate the powers of government and enshrine the social contract. The purpose of a constitution is often seen as a limit on the authority of the government

4) derived from enlightenment ideals regarding individual rights

The threat to liberal democracy over the last few decades is, unfortunately, earned. But that is due to failing to act based on the principles and values within liberal democracy. The post-cold war US leveraged the 9-11 attacks to invade Iraq and violate national sovereignty around the world as we waged a "war on terror". Domestically as you've noted, the middle class has been eroded away as more and more of our wealth has accrued to fewer and fewer people while increasing numbers of people find it harder to get by. Global elites have developed systems for disappearing wealth out of the system to protect it from taxation and the rule of law. Liberal democracy was never perfect, and numerous people have not found our society living up to that promise which, when those inequalities are protested, causes those who aren't subject to them to feel their own place in society is threatened which leads to both disaffection with liberal democracy and a willingness to find strong individual leaders to force change/protect from change depending on one's own position in the in-balance.

Those are real issues. But they defined the common state of humanity prior to the emergence of liberal democratic systems and values. See Hobb's Leviathan for reference. Abandoning liberal democracy won't fix the problems. It just becomes a scramble to be on the side that comes out on top. The few winners may end up looking different from those apparently winning today, but there will be few of them and there won't be a system in place that allows for correction without violence and revolution.

Russia invaded Ukraine using rhetoric at home decrying the decadence of the west, our abandonment of God, our weakness. Putin claimed there was no such thing as Ukraine, it was Russia and the people there wanted to be part of Russia except for the corrupt elite.

Populism relies on the contrast of the audience it seeks to win over as being good, simple folks oppressed in some way by a corrupt elite. I'd go so far as to say that pattern should be a triggering phrase for folks that should slow you down and get you thinking about what the person using the phrase is after.

Instead, I suggest looking at the problems themselves and seeking out how we might address them through law, through collective action, sure. But understanding that the values of liberal democracy are what makes it possible to have a role in our own governance. We give that up when we give up on liberal democracy.

[Gadianton]

Is Ukraine corrupt. We’re their gain of function drug labs via Dr. Fauci in China and Ukraine.

A transparent lie.

By the way, if it's so easy to engineer pandemics, why haven't the elite started the next one yet?

Why did Joe Biden have a prosecutor dismissed that didn’t like the the things he was hearing about Joe and Hunter Biden.

He didn't.

With U.S. supporting the Ukraine it is hitting Russia with arms from the U.S.A. Russia may send the heat of the inner sun to New York and Los Angeles

True, but if we let them have Ukraine and they reckon the implicit threat works, why not keep expanding? The only valid argument is to buy time; it would be better for those in this generation to pass the risk on to their children.

I think both sides are dirty and we are being played by both sides. While Fauci makes his millions and college athletes die of heart failure.

What's your evidence?

And remember, Trump was president in January, 2020 when this whole thing started. My drinking started in February, 2020.

A lesson to everyone: don't be such an unhinged Trump supporter that you're driven to the bottle if he isn't allowed to overturn an election he lost.

[yellowstone123]

Thank you so much for your thoughtful response.

[canpakes]

I wrote a while back about an article in the paper where wages in Idaho wages have gone up 25 percent and rental rates have hone up 125%. Pretty soon there will be no sofas but six to 10 bunk beds per apartment.

Yellowstone, what is the cause of this, and what do you see as a good solution?

[huckelberry]

I wrote a while back about an article in the paper where wages in Idaho wages have gone up 25 percent and rental rates have hone up 125%. Pretty soon there will be no sofas but six to 10 bunk beds per apartment.

Yellowstone, what is the cause of this, and what do you see as a good solution?

Well, you could send Trump money and he could send you paper towels and a picture of himself.