Hurtful Language You May Not know.

[Father Francis]

I was born in the early 80's for context.

When I was a small child we sang songs in elementary as most kids do. Nursery rhymes that often had hidden meanings we knew nothing about. Jack and Jill is a good example. Some were more hurtful, but we didn't know. One started with singing in broken English about being from China and being stupid. It seemed like a funny song to us 5-8 year old white kids. We were just reciting songs handed down to us.

In middle school everything bad was "gay". A deceptive bad deal was "Jewish". A male perceived as weak was a "fag". A female perceived as less than feminine was a "dyke".

These words are not used as much publicly due to recognition that it isn't ok. Kinda like how slurs against black people, Asians and Latinos of various origins aren't ok.

I'm going to seem to digress for a moment, but I have a point.

Many years ago when I was in college I took American Political History. On the first day the professor stated that he wanted the mostly white male class to understand history through his eyes. I was a white middle class male and I thought it was a good Idea. I still do. I learned a lot. One thing I'll never forget is when he got to Andrew Jackson. He paused for a minute and then said that the Native Americans, and especially the women, are the only ones than had and still have it worse than black people in America and they don't get media attention like BLM.

Look up what is still happening to women in their communities.

I'm done digressing, and I hope you'll see why after I explain.

There is a people that have been oppressed for centuries and, like the Native Americans, have been ignored. Slurs against them have not been exposed to the point of public shame. I have used them in my speech not even knowing and maybe you have as well.

The Romani people don't like being called "gypsy". I have friends among them and I can tell you that "gypsy" and "gypped" are not ok words to use.

Might seem cumbersome, but we should respect people's identities and not use offensive language when speaking of other people.

[Dr. Shades]

Might seem cumbersome, but we should respect people's identities and not use offensive language when speaking of other people.

Thank you for this cutting-edge insight.

[Chap]

Might seem cumbersome, but we should respect people's identities and not use offensive language when speaking of other people.

Thank you for this cutting-edge insight.

Was that meant as a slightly sneering comment designed to indicate that in your view Father Francis was unnecessarily stating the obvious?

Personally, I have no objection to reading a post such as the OP from time to time. It's not as if this forum is currently so crammed with new posts that I can't spare the time.

[Jersey Girl]

Might seem cumbersome, but we should respect people's identities and not use offensive language when speaking of other people.

Thank you for this cutting-edge insight.

Would you like me to collect up your cutting-edge insightful posts and put them here?

[Jersey Girl]

I saw the OP last night. Father Francis, I am not sure what your beef is with Jack and Jill. I'd like you to state it more completely if you will.

Mother Goose nursery rhymes are filled with political satire. They aren't to be taken seriously.

Anyway, I'd like to offer up one little thing from my own childhood. And, I do intend to follow up with a comment here because I think my position is near opposite of yours at least in some cases.

How to choose "it" in a game:

My mother and your mother
were hanging the clothes.
My mother punched your mother
right in the nose.
What color was the blood?

Y-E-L-L-O-W Spells yellow and you are It!

I ain't even going to eeny meeny miney mo. I'd probably kill ya to read it.

Oh and by the way, I used that above rhyme regularly throughout childhood. I've never punched anyone in the nose much less my mother and I've never been punched in the nose either.

More on that later...

[Jersey Girl]

One more from my own younger years...

You wrote: A deceptive bad deal was "Jewish".

What? When did that happen? Not in my day. To Jew someone down was seen as being adept at doing business. Who the heck turned it into something deceptive? Are you sure you've got that right? That wasn't my own experience. Where does that come from?

Also, just for general purposes since we're on the topic, to get a good Jew lawyer meant you were getting someone who was well schooled and skilled at applying the law on your behalf.

These refs were NOT slurs on Jews. They were acknowledgements of skill. I suppose you can put your own take on it, but that's not how the phrases were used previously.

You simply cannot put a label on all of these things as detrimental. The use and intentions behind the usage is key and develops culturally over time.

I feel a speech coming on here. I'll get to it as I have time.

Back in high school I was viewed as being tough. What do you think was meant by that? I guarantee you the answer will demonstrate how language usage changes over time.

That Jersey Girl is really tough!

What did that mean?

[Bond]

What? When did that happen? Not in my day. To Jew someone down was seen as being adept at doing business. Who the heck turned it into something deceptive? Are you sure you've got that right? That wasn't my own experience. Where does that come from?

The way I heard "Jew" used was always (multiple times as recently as the 2010s in rural KY) along the lines of "he really tried to Jew me up/down on the price [of an object/business deal]" clearly indicating greediness of the opposing person. Often times aimed at Amish/Mennonite farmers so a slight attack on group outside the mainstream in the area.

[Jersey Girl]

What? When did that happen? Not in my day. To Jew someone down was seen as being adept at doing business. Who the heck turned it into something deceptive? Are you sure you've got that right? That wasn't my own experience. Where does that come from?

The way I heard "Jew" used was always (multiple times as recently as the 2010s in rural KY) along the lines of "he really tried to Jew me up/down on the price [of an object/business deal]" clearly indicating greediness of the opposing person. Often times aimed at Amish/Mennonite farmers so a slight attack on group outside the mainstream in the area.

Language and it's meaning changes over time. Symbolism same thing.

Example, what's this?

[Dr. Shades]

Personally, I have no objection to reading a post such as the OP from time to time.

Me neither. It's always good to re-familiarize oneself with the obvious every so often.

Thank you for this cutting-edge insight.

Would you like me to collect up your cutting-edge insightful posts and put them here?

Yes, please.

[Jersey Girl]

Would you like me to collect up your cutting-edge insightful posts and put them here?

Yes, please.

Take a number and get in line.