Donald Trump and Joseph Smith

[Kishkumen]

The more I think about it, the more this comparison seems worth thinking about. Especially in the lengths their followers will go to excuse their bad behavior. I was listening to Lindsay Hansen Park on MoSto, and it suddenly hit me. There really is a similarly astonishing level of wrongdoing here, and at the same time their followers seem to be completely oblivious to the facts. They either don't know them because they have been hidden by allies (Trump-friendly media, LDS apologists), they rationalize the wrongdoing in service to some alleged higher purpose (stopping Roe v. Wade, eternal salvation), or they refuse to accept that they are real once they have seen the facts.

No matter how one chooses to explain or explain away the bad behavior, you have to wonder why it is that people would want to live under this kind of capricious regime. Would you want to take a job working for Trump? Would you leave your spouse to go on a mission if Smith said God commanded it? I think you get the picture. Neither person would think twice about screwing you over if it benefited him or he thought it was justified somehow, and you would be left suffering the consequences. Do people not think of the ramifications of suffering this kind of wrong to be done to others simply because it hasn't struck them yet? What kind of world do we want to live in? One where people like this run roughshod over the rest of us?

[¥akaSteelhead]

the cult worship has people detached from reality.
https://www.deseret.com/2023/9/26/23891 ... -ramaswamy

[Kishkumen]

the cult worship has people detached from reality.
https://www.deseret.com/2023/9/26/23891 ... -ramaswamy

Unbelievable! Trump “a man of faith”? Faith in himself, I suppose. How anyone, any percentage of any group, could identify him as a man of faith in the traditional sense is baffling to me.

[Some Schmo]

- Ignorance
- Stupidity
- Belligerence
- Insanity

It's simple. Trump fans are motivated by emotion, and nothing else. I see them as pathetic, fear-based, desperate people grasping at imaginary straws.

Nobody has ever offered a rational defense of Trump, because there aren't any. Trump love is like a spastic (Tourette's-like) response to your own impotence.

I'd pity them if it weren't for the fact they are inadvertently trying to destroy America.

ETA: My guess is that Joe Smith's followers weren't much different. We all know churches only convert people if they catch them during a personal crisis. No happy person ever decides to radically change their lifestyle. You have to be desperate to fall for that nonsense.

[Kishkumen]

- Ignorance
- Stupidity
- Belligerence
- Insanity

It's simple. Trump fans are motivated by emotion, and nothing else. I see them as pathetic, fear-based, desperate people grasping at imaginary straws.

Nobody has ever offered a rational defense of Trump, because there aren't any. Trump love is like a spastic (Tourette's-like) response to your own impotence.

I'd pity them if it weren't for the fact they are inadvertently trying to destroy America.

ETA: My guess is that Joe Smith's followers weren't much different. We all know churches only convert people if they catch them during a personal crisis. No happy person ever decides to radically change their lifestyle. You have to be desperate to fall for that nonsense.

Yes, I have not seen a rational defense of Trump other than “better than Joe Biden,” which is demonstrably false. Part of the cult mentality is that all that seems to matter is that they carry a conviction about Trump that is not grounded in any facts. It’s kinda like a testimony.

[Res Ipsa]

The more I think about it, the more this comparison seems worth thinking about. Especially in the lengths their followers will go to excuse their bad behavior. I was listening to Lindsay Hansen Park on MoSto, and it suddenly hit me. There really is a similarly astonishing level of wrongdoing here, and at the same time their followers seem to be completely oblivious to the facts. They either don't know them because they have been hidden by allies (Trump-friendly media, LDS apologists), they rationalize the wrongdoing in service to some alleged higher purpose (stopping Roe v. Wade, eternal salvation), or they refuse to accept that they are real once they have seen the facts.

No matter how one chooses to explain or explain away the bad behavior, you have to wonder why it is that people would want to live under this kind of capricious regime. Would you want to take a job working for Trump? Would you leave your spouse to go on a mission if Smith said God commanded it? I think you get the picture. Neither person would think twice about screwing you over if it benefited him or he thought it was justified somehow, and you would be left suffering the consequences. Do people not think of the ramifications of suffering this kind of wrong to be done to others simply because it hasn't struck them yet? What kind of world do we want to live in? One where people like this run roughshod over the rest of us?

I think we may have overestimated the strength and resilience of democracy and the institutions needed to implement and sustain it. We have a world under stress and a general movement away from democracy and toward autocracy. Perhaps we're suffering from aspects of evolved human nature that were a feature in the past, but a bug today. Trump has become a promoter of violence, with the MAGA movement following behind. What Matt Gaetz said at the Iowa state fair would have been anathema a couple of decades ago. Today, violence is an inherent part of being a Republican politician. This road leads to nothing good.

[Gadianton]

A legitimate angle to take, Reverend. I've compared the Church to the DPRK lately, but I think comparisons to Trump are also valid.

There are strong parallels between Smith and Trump in terms of raw tribalism and cluster B personal traits. As leaders, they also seem to appeal to the same kind of base -- essentially, nutters.

I think in modern times when freedom has been on the table, it slips in the following progression:

libertarianism ---> contrariansim ---> authoritarianism

In rhetoric, Mormonism puts all the power in the hands of the individual, who can go directly to God for answers and even receive the father, spiritual gifts, administering angels, and there's no paid ministry.

One difference between Smith and Trump is that Trump is a negative hero and Smith is not. Smith was a good speaker and charismatic; a great salesman, Trump isn't. He's not just an open criminal, but openly incompetent and nonsensical, impersonal, no sense of humor, but these are all virtues for Republican opposites day; and every day is opposites day. The Trump NFT cards are funny because of the exaggerations; if it were Putin they wouldn't be meant tongue-in-cheek. He's not charismatic in the least, but he is entertaining, and a lot of that is how is he going to disrespect his position next; what's he going to say that's unconventional or out of line.

[ajax18]

Joseph Smith came from nothing. He had a very different perspective on wealth redistribution. I'm not saying Joseph was a communist nor that he would have tolerated the "everybody's got to eat," racial justifications for smash and grab robbing of liquor stores in the name of reparations embraced by modern Democrats. Yes Joseph divided property but he was firm in his view that the loafer should not eat the bread earned by the laborer.

In Trump the conservative working class found a man with enough wealth to give them the means to fight back against the communists on the left and the Romney/GWB aristocrats on the right.

[Gadianton]

I'm sorry Ajax, but what has Trump done for the working class? I mean besides talk and make false promises.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features ... on-support

If anything, he's used the gullible working class to sustain him financially. The money is one way, from the working class to Trump.

Just because Trump successfully tapped into the anger of the working class doesn't mean he's done anything for them.

[ajax18]

I'm sorry Ajax, but what has Trump done for the working class? I mean besides talk and make false promises.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features ... on-support

If anything, he's used the gullible working class to sustain him financially. The money is one way, from the working class to Trump.

Just because Trump successfully tapped into the anger of the working class doesn't mean he's done anything for them.

He did way more for us than any of his opponents ever did. Inasmuch as he failed it's because we're in a post constitutional democracy that amounts to nothing more than 3 wolves and a sheep voting on who to eat for dinner. As I said I'll be voting Democrat as part of my scorched earth political initiative. I hope I live to see you working your ass off to pay for these moochers in your old age. That would make it worth it.