House Republicans in Disarray

[honorentheos]

Why do you think the moderates were willing to back him if he's more extreme than the others?

Partially fatigued and seeing no path forward that would move the needle for the more extremist elements of their party. They frankly lost a game of chicken with Gaetz and Co who have no problem simply crashing into anything in front of them in the way so maybe we should have seen this coming.

I also suspect there are some who mistake Johnson's limited public profile for a sign he could be negotiated with in ways firebrands couldn't. I think those folks will find out they were wrong.

[honorentheos]

I also suspect the strategy to go right to the floor helped in that those who might have had reservations about Johnson didn't get to take the temperature of the room and see if they were safely among a large enough number of dissidents they could hide among them rather than being in a small group of holdouts whose names would be in the headlines. It was smart...which says something about the future, in my opinion.

[Dr Exiled]

Johnson is similar to Mike Pence in that his strong Christian identity doesn't just bleed into his politics, they share a heart.

Legislation such as the nation-wide abortion ban, discriminatory legislation especially targeted at same-sex marriage and LGBTQ rights, reducing or removing the separation between church and state, and anti-pluralism legislation are categories I suspect are now more likely to make it through the House than before.

I also suspect we will see the House reject sending more money to support Ukraine even as we bend over backwards for Israel. Other budget bills will be deeply motivated by far right views seeking to reduce or remove governmental regulation of industries. Reduced support for organized labor. Reduced support for climate action. Less support for science-based programs and education. Things like that.

1. The democrats should have passed a nationwide law allowing abortion when it had the chance, but instead wanted the election issue to survive.
2. The LGBTQ question seems like a good way to paint the conservatives with the bigot brush and probably won't go far. However, leaving this to parents and not the state seems the better approach when concerning children under 18.
3. Obviously, the first amendment should be respected.
4. I think the belly aching over populism comes from the oligarchy that runs the country and funds both political parties and the think tanks that support them.
5. How about we use the funds to fix problems here? At least audit the funds. Foreign aid has circled back into campaign coffers too often.
6. How about break up the monopolies? There are only 5 or 6 media companies. Google controls almost 100% of the search engine traffic. Amazon has too much power, etc.
7. Labor should be in partnership with capital. Clinton did a big disservice to the democrats when he did his "third way" nonsense. Bring back the old democrats that would at least pay a little more attention to labor.
8. We need to have a debate on climate action, allowing the detractors to state their case publicly without censorship. The truth should easily prevail here.
9. The attack on science by the right is overblown. Let the isolated counties in the south do whatever and suffer the consequences of being left behind.

[ajax18]

Partially fatigued and seeing no path forward that would move the needle for the more extremist elements of their party. They frankly lost a game of chicken with Gaetz and Co who have no problem simply crashing into anything in front of them in the way so maybe we should have seen this coming.

What did Democrats think would happen when they voted to get rid of McCarthy? Gaetz could never have done that without Democrat help.

[ajax18]

So, what are you afraid of that might get passed?

The border might get enforced and threaten Democrat voting power. It might cost liberal elites like Veritas more in payroll and threaten his plantation owner lifestyle. The House could start looking out for the American taxpayer when it comes to a forever war in Ukraine that is in a perpetual stalemate. It might also be more difficult to pursue America last economic policies on the international stage while at home increasing the abuse upon the American taxpayer in the name of borrowing to fund beloved Democrat entitlement programs for those that choose not to work. And more importantly mor of Old crooked Joe's lies about the family business will be more difficult to keep covered up.

[Res Ipsa]

Johnson is similar to Mike Pence in that his strong Christian identity doesn't just bleed into his politics, they share a heart.

Legislation such as the nation-wide abortion ban, discriminatory legislation especially targeted at same-sex marriage and LGBTQ rights, reducing or removing the separation between church and state, and anti-pluralism legislation are categories I suspect are now more likely to make it through the House than before.

I also suspect we will see the House reject sending more money to support Ukraine even as we bend over backwards for Israel. Other budget bills will be deeply motivated by far right views seeking to reduce or remove governmental regulation of industries. Reduced support for organized labor. Reduced support for climate action. Less support for science-based programs and education. Things like that.

1. The democrats should have passed a nationwide law allowing abortion when it had the chance, but instead wanted the election issue to survive.

When did democrats control 2/3 of the Senate? This is typical CT nonsense.

2. The LGBTQ question seems like a good way to paint the conservatives with the bigot brush and probably won't go far. However, leaving this to parents and not the state seems the better approach when concerning children under 18.

Conservatives paint themselves with the bigotry brush. Here's the Heritage Foundation's "Mandate" for its Project 2025:

The next conservative President must make the institutions of American civil society hard targets for woke culture warriors. This starts with deleting the terms sexual orientation and gender identity (“SOGI”), diversity, equity, and inclusion (“DEI”), gender, gender equality, gender equity, gender awareness, gender-sensi- tive, abortion, reproductive health, reproductive rights, and any other term used to deprive Americans of their First Amendment rights out of every federal rule, agency regulation, contract, grant, regulation, and piece of legislation that exists.

Pornography, manifested today in the omnipresent propagation of transgender ideology and sexualization of children, for instance, is not a political Gordian knot inextricably binding up disparate claims about free speech, property rights, sexual liberation, and child welfare. It has no claim to First Amendment protection. Its purveyors are child predators and misogynistic exploiters of women. Their product is as addictive as any illicit drug and as psychologically destructive as any crime. Pornography should be outlawed. The people who produce and distribute it should be imprisoned. Educators and public librarians who purvey it should be classed as registered sex offenders. And telecommunications and technology firms that facilitate its spread should be shuttered.

"Transgender ideology" = pornography. Trans people = child molesters. This is pure, unadulterated bigotry. Trivializing this bigotry as a "brush" feeds the bigotry.

3. Obviously, the first amendment should be respected.

One would think. Watching Republican demagogues criminalize speech makes me wonder.

4. I think the belly aching over populism comes from the oligarchy that runs the country and funds both political parties and the think tanks that support them.

Trivializing legitimate concerns about the authoritarian nature of populist movements as "belly aching" from the oligarchy is just more CT. All one has to do is study the nature of past and present populist movements.

5. How about we use the funds to fix problems here? At least audit the funds. Foreign aid has circled back into campaign coffers too often.

Are we not spending funds to fix problems in the U.S.? Are you saying it's never in the interest of the United States to spend money on other countries? What additional "auditing" are you proposing. How long would it take and what would be the cost? Campaign donations by foreigners is illegal. If it's happening too often, how about beefing up the enforcement of those laws.

6. How about break up the monopolies? There are only 5 or 6 media companies. Google controls almost 100% of the search engine traffic. Amazon has too much power, etc.

No quarrel there.

7. Labor should be in partnership with capital. Clinton did a big disservice to the democrats when he did his "third way" nonsense. Bring back the old democrats that would at least pay a little more attention to labor.

Or there.

8. We need to have a debate on climate action, allowing the detractors to state their case publicly without censorship. The truth should easily prevail here.

This is straight out of the climate change denier conspiracy theory playbook. The anti-science climate contrarians have had a loud voice with an outsized effect on climate policy for decades. They haven't been censored -- they've regularly testified in front of Congressional committees and lobbied representatives, senators, and presidents. They're funded by the same oligarchs you were just complaining about upthread. Climate is one of those issues where the BS asymmetry principle is present in spades, and so the "truth" will simply be buried by crap in a public debate.

9. The attack on science by the right is overblown. Let the isolated counties in the south do whatever and suffer the consequences of being left behind.

The attack on science by the right isn't limited to isolated southern countries. Attacking climate science has been a mainstream part of the Republican party for decades. Anti-vaxx, which used to be more of a left thing, has also become part of Republican ideology. Anti-masking -- same thing. It was pathetic yesterday watching the unmasked lawyers for Trump demanding "uncontaminated" microphones. The Republican Party simply trashes any scientific evidence that contradicts its ideology. The Republican denial of expertise, including scientific expertise, has been one of the most damaging tactics of the last 50 years.

[honorentheos]

Johnson is similar to Mike Pence in that his strong Christian identity doesn't just bleed into his politics, they share a heart.

Legislation such as the nation-wide abortion ban, discriminatory legislation especially targeted at same-sex marriage and LGBTQ rights, reducing or removing the separation between church and state, and anti-pluralism legislation are categories I suspect are now more likely to make it through the House than before.

I also suspect we will see the House reject sending more money to support Ukraine even as we bend over backwards for Israel. Other budget bills will be deeply motivated by far right views seeking to reduce or remove governmental regulation of industries. Reduced support for organized labor. Reduced support for climate action. Less support for science-based programs and education. Things like that.

1. The democrats should have passed a nationwide law allowing abortion when it had the chance, but instead wanted the election issue to survive.
2. The LGBTQ question seems like a good way to paint the conservatives with the bigot brush and probably won't go far. However, leaving this to parents and not the state seems the better approach when concerning children under 18.
3. Obviously, the first amendment should be respected.
4. I think the belly aching over populism comes from the oligarchy that runs the country and funds both political parties and the think tanks that support them.
5. How about we use the funds to fix problems here? At least audit the funds. Foreign aid has circled back into campaign coffers too often.
6. How about break up the monopolies? There are only 5 or 6 media companies. Google controls almost 100% of the search engine traffic. Amazon has too much power, etc.
7. Labor should be in partnership with capital. Clinton did a big disservice to the democrats when he did his "third way" nonsense. Bring back the old democrats that would at least pay a little more attention to labor.
8. We need to have a debate on climate action, allowing the detractors to state their case publicly without censorship. The truth should easily prevail here.
9. The attack on science by the right is overblown. Let the isolated counties in the south do whatever and suffer the consequences of being left behind.

Weird how you independently came up with the same talking points as mainstream conservative media sources. Must make them valid, huh?

[Dr Exiled]

1. The democrats should have passed a nationwide law allowing abortion when it had the chance, but instead wanted the election issue to survive.
2. The LGBTQ question seems like a good way to paint the conservatives with the bigot brush and probably won't go far. However, leaving this to parents and not the state seems the better approach when concerning children under 18.
3. Obviously, the first amendment should be respected.
4. I think the belly aching over populism comes from the oligarchy that runs the country and funds both political parties and the think tanks that support them.
5. How about we use the funds to fix problems here? At least audit the funds. Foreign aid has circled back into campaign coffers too often.
6. How about break up the monopolies? There are only 5 or 6 media companies. Google controls almost 100% of the search engine traffic. Amazon has too much power, etc.
7. Labor should be in partnership with capital. Clinton did a big disservice to the democrats when he did his "third way" nonsense. Bring back the old democrats that would at least pay a little more attention to labor.
8. We need to have a debate on climate action, allowing the detractors to state their case publicly without censorship. The truth should easily prevail here.
9. The attack on science by the right is overblown. Let the isolated counties in the south do whatever and suffer the consequences of being left behind.

Weird how you independently came up with the same talking points as mainstream conservative media sources. Must make them valid, huh?

Same tiresome BS team v. team game. Take a look at what Res said upthread. At least he responded to each point and actually agreed on my complaints about monopolies and how Clinton's third way was no benefit to labor. Take a break from the team. Both Democrats and Republicans are beholden to the oligarchy that contributes to both parties, but you refuse to see it and instead mindlessly repeat democratic talking points about how supposedly Republicans are terrorists. Your fears are misplaced probably due to watching too much Maddow and her MSNBC crowd. Or in other words, you're obviously too stupid to know the issues yourself and therefore, der, must be a puppet or robot or perhaps a little of both.

[Dr Exiled]

1. The democrats should have passed a nationwide law allowing abortion when it had the chance, but instead wanted the election issue to survive.

When did democrats control 2/3 of the Senate? This is typical CT nonsense.

2. The LGBTQ question seems like a good way to paint the conservatives with the bigot brush and probably won't go far. However, leaving this to parents and not the state seems the better approach when concerning children under 18.

Conservatives paint themselves with the bigotry brush. Here's the Heritage Foundation's "Mandate" for its Project 2025:

The next conservative President must make the institutions of American civil society hard targets for woke culture warriors. This starts with deleting the terms sexual orientation and gender identity (“SOGI”), diversity, equity, and inclusion (“DEI”), gender, gender equality, gender equity, gender awareness, gender-sensi- tive, abortion, reproductive health, reproductive rights, and any other term used to deprive Americans of their First Amendment rights out of every federal rule, agency regulation, contract, grant, regulation, and piece of legislation that exists.

Pornography, manifested today in the omnipresent propagation of transgender ideology and sexualization of children, for instance, is not a political Gordian knot inextricably binding up disparate claims about free speech, property rights, sexual liberation, and child welfare. It has no claim to First Amendment protection. Its purveyors are child predators and misogynistic exploiters of women. Their product is as addictive as any illicit drug and as psychologically destructive as any crime. Pornography should be outlawed. The people who produce and distribute it should be imprisoned. Educators and public librarians who purvey it should be classed as registered sex offenders. And telecommunications and technology firms that facilitate its spread should be shuttered.

"Transgender ideology" = pornography. Trans people = child molesters. This is pure, unadulterated bigotry. Trivializing this bigotry as a "brush" feeds the bigotry.

3. Obviously, the first amendment should be respected.

One would think. Watching Republican demagogues criminalize speech makes me wonder.

4. I think the belly aching over populism comes from the oligarchy that runs the country and funds both political parties and the think tanks that support them.

Trivializing legitimate concerns about the authoritarian nature of populist movements as "belly aching" from the oligarchy is just more CT. All one has to do is study the nature of past and present populist movements.

5. How about we use the funds to fix problems here? At least audit the funds. Foreign aid has circled back into campaign coffers too often.

Are we not spending funds to fix problems in the U.S.? Are you saying it's never in the interest of the United States to spend money on other countries? What additional "auditing" are you proposing. How long would it take and what would be the cost? Campaign donations by foreigners is illegal. If it's happening too often, how about beefing up the enforcement of those laws.

6. How about break up the monopolies? There are only 5 or 6 media companies. Google controls almost 100% of the search engine traffic. Amazon has too much power, etc.

No quarrel there.

7. Labor should be in partnership with capital. Clinton did a big disservice to the democrats when he did his "third way" nonsense. Bring back the old democrats that would at least pay a little more attention to labor.

Or there.

8. We need to have a debate on climate action, allowing the detractors to state their case publicly without censorship. The truth should easily prevail here.

This is straight out of the climate change denier conspiracy theory playbook. The anti-science climate contrarians have had a loud voice with an outsized effect on climate policy for decades. They haven't been censored -- they've regularly testified in front of Congressional committees and lobbied representatives, senators, and presidents. They're funded by the same oligarchs you were just complaining about upthread. Climate is one of those issues where the B.S. asymmetry principle is present in spades, and so the "truth" will simply be buried by crap in a public debate.

9. The attack on science by the right is overblown. Let the isolated counties in the south do whatever and suffer the consequences of being left behind.

The attack on science by the right isn't limited to isolated southern countries. Attacking climate science has been a mainstream part of the Republican party for decades. Anti-vaxx, which used to be more of a left thing, has also become part of Republican ideology. Anti-masking -- same thing. It was pathetic yesterday watching the unmasked lawyers for Trump demanding "uncontaminated" microphones. The Republican Party simply trashes any scientific evidence that contradicts its ideology. The Republican denial of expertise, including scientific expertise, has been one of the most damaging tactics of the last 50 years.

1. Democrats didn't even try because they wanted a campaign issue.
2. I have two nieces that are LGTBQ and one of them just got engaged. Good for her. The marriage laws should remain. However, we need to come together and just settle the divisive issues once and for all. Both parties use these issues to divide so we don't attack the real monopolistic problems their benefactors care about. We are becoming more and more like South America with its 1% owning the overwhelming majority of assets. It's got to change.
3. Where are they criminalizing free speech? The democrats are the ones bullying social media to kill free speech.
4. They aren't authoritarian, just in disagreement with the oligopoly and so were painted with this authoritarian brush, because going against our beloved authoritarian leaders must be authoritarian. Seems like projection. Meanwhile, the Biden Administration wants to kill free speech on social media. Seems fascist to me. I think the 5th Circuit case was just granted Cert.
5. How about an independent audit like corporations do? Let's see where the money is going and while we are at it, audit the DoD and track down where the money went when it fails.
8. Yet there is at least one nobel prize winner that disagrees that there are problems with the climate: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/no ... r-AA1eyC3S

Surely this guy is wrong and it should be easy to show. Cancelling him is not the answer. The answer to bad speech is good speech, not censorship or cancellation.

9. Part of the 5th Circuit case is about shutting down scientists from Harvard and Stanford for daring to commit wrongspeak regarding the pandemic. How about hearing them out and showing us where they are wrong?

[Nomomo]