Israel

[Dr. Shades]

The same thing you think they are: To eliminate Hamas so it won't fire missiles into Israel anymore.

I expressed what I think they're motivations are right on this thread. I don't think what you think.

In that case, I was wrong about what you think. But in answer to your question, that's what I think. But what does what I think about the Israel / Hamas war have to do with yellowstone123's misinterpretations of both the consequences of 10-07-2023 and of Genesis 15:18?

[Jersey Girl]

I expressed what I think they're motivations are right on this thread. I don't think what you think.

In that case, I was wrong about what you think. But in answer to your question, that's what I think. But what does what I think about the Israel / Hamas war have to do with yellowstone123's misinterpretations of both the consequences of 10-07-2023 and of Genesis 15:18?

It has everything to do with what motivates Israel. You think it's about ending Hamas terrorism. What yellow is pointing to (I didn't watch the entire Ben Shapiro video--3 minutes tops) aligns more to my thoughts about the war. I say the purpose is two fold. Ending terrorism on the part of Hamas and taking the land back.

If it's not at least partially about taking the land back, then why drive the Gazans to the south and then move the attack to the south? Why deny humanitarian aid? Do you think Israel is going to allow them to return? If so, what do they have to return to? If they won't allow access to humanitarian aid right now, do you think they'll allow it after the war?

I say it's because they want both Hamas and the Gazans out of the land. Why? Because Israel believes it was gifted to them by God. And just as they believe that God granted them permission to drive the Canaanites out of the area, I think they believe that God grants them permission to drive Hamas and Palestinian folk out of the area right now.

You said previously that all those countries won't just roll over. The Palestinian territory of Gaza has already rolled over.

You can say that yellow is wrong. You can say that the Genesis account is simply myth. You can say that you don't believe that the Genesis account is truth. You can even say there is no Yahweh because Yahweh is made up. In the end, it doesn't matter what you think or believe. What matters in this case is what Israel believes to be true.

If anything I said here isn't clear, bring that to my attention and I'll try to make it clearer.

[Dr. Shades]

You said previously that all those countries won't just roll over. The Palestinian territory of Gaza has already rolled over.

Gaza =/= all countries between the Nile and the Euphrates.

You can say that yellow is wrong. You can say that the Genesis account is simply myth. You can say that you don't believe that the Genesis account is truth. You can even say there is no Yahweh because Yahweh is made up. In the end, it doesn't matter what you think or believe. What matters in this case is what Israel believes to be true.

Does Israel believe that it will try to take over all the land between the Nile and the Euphrates, using 10-07-2023 as an excuse, or is yellowstone123 wrong?

[Jersey Girl]

You said previously that all those countries won't just roll over. The Palestinian territory of Gaza has already rolled over.

Gaza =/= all countries between the Nile and the Euphrates.

You can say that yellow is wrong. You can say that the Genesis account is simply myth. You can say that you don't believe that the Genesis account is truth. You can even say there is no Yahweh because Yahweh is made up. In the end, it doesn't matter what you think or believe. What matters in this case is what Israel believes to be true.

Does Israel believe that it will try to take over all the land between the Nile and the Euphrates, using 10-07-2023 as an excuse, or is yellowstone123 wrong?

I disagree about the identification of the river of Egypt as the Nile. There's an alternative body of water and after listening to Messianic Jews, it think they are probably more accurate or at least it seemed so as they explained their reasons for believing it's the alternative and not the Nile. In any case, you could say that the body of water (Not the Euphrates because it is named for us) mentioned isn't clear as to location.

So, back to what you asked. Do I think they'll try to take over the whole perceived God-given land? Yes, I think it's highly possible. But right now or in rapid succession? Nah, I don't think so. The thing is is that there are competing claims to the land. That's why I think it' behooves us not to make assumptions or take what we're seeing right now at face value. I think that it's not just political objectives at work. I think there are also deeply rooted ancient beliefs at work as well.

What I saw of the Ben Shapiro video looked like it was trying to lay out the history of the region. I didn't listen to it because I don't see him as a credible source.

So is yellow right or wrong...I think he's at least pointing to what motivates Israel and that Israel seized the opportunity to effect a land grab. I think that yellow thinks that Israel is on a righteous mission and reclaiming territory that rightfully belongs to them.

It's late. I probably messed that all up.

[Jersey Girl]

Just went into my youtube library. Here's a link to the Messianic Jews I was referring to. I think I listened to this twice. I need to listen to it again.

Run time is 2:25:15

Israel: Whose Land is it Anyway?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0jdK9Z ... l&index=10

[Jersey Girl]

ETA: Funny thing is that I've been saying for decades on these boards (decades long journey) that we don't fully understand the Bible because we don't understand what the references and symbolism mean. With the Chosen People ministries I linked above, it helps to be taught by people who DO understand. If we gain understanding as to what the Jews actually believe, we might have a shot at understanding what motivates Israel right now. Could it be purely political? Sure. The Bible is political. And therein are the roots of Israel belief. In essence, I think what motivates Israel to continue the war is both political and religious.

It's all the same thing. There is no separation.

[yellowstone123]

Thank you to all who responded. The thoughts are needed. When I read that verse at a website where you can see it in around 20 different bibles the majority say Wadi of Egpty to the Euphrates.

Shapiro gave a lot of historical facts but did not mention Sadat was to be killed by his troops and not that Prime Minster Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated for signing the Oslo accords giving away the West Bank and then was killed by a far-far right Jew was wrong.

The facts that Jews joined the British Army who warned the poor to leave the area is not the whole story. Ben Gurion went to Turkey to study law and also joined the Ottoman army.

[Jersey Girl]

Israel just attacked Iran. My Lord, the Middle East needs to slow their roll over there.

ETA: Yanked the following off CNN.

Israel carries out strike in Iran, a US official says
From CNN's Alex Marquardt

Israel has carried out a strike inside Iran, a US official tells CNN, in a move that threatens to push the region deeper into conflict.

The target is not nuclear, the official said.

Prior to the Israeli strike Friday (local time), the US expectation was that they would not target civilian or nuclear facilities, another senior US official told CNN.

CNN has previously reported that Israel told the US its response would be limited in scope. US intelligence had suggested Israel was weighing a narrow and limited strike inside Iran because they feel like they have to respond with a kinetic action of some kind given the unprecedented scale of the Iranian attack

The range of targets was “never specified in precise terms but nuclear and civilian locations were clearly not in that category,” the second official added.

The US has been urging Israel not to respond to last weekend’s Iranian attack, which President Joe Biden on Thursday called “unprecedented.” The US “didn’t green light” an Israeli response, the second official said.

[Nomomo]

“F” Israel. I'm sick of their war criminal asses.

[yellowstone123]

Israel came in and struck Iran with technology that stunned and scared the religious leaders in Iran. Iran now has no plans to retaliate likely because they feared the same technology would be used and at an even greater scale. Israel gave them a taste of what they could do.

Israel has only wanted peace, but when they wage war they win it quickly not like the USA: ten years Vietnam. 20 years Afghanistan. Israel knows their objectives and they carry it out.

They actually have the power to take the whole Middle East - from the Nile River to the Euphrates but that's not what they want. They say leave us alone and let us live our lives. Israel has actually conquered and controlled the Gaza and the Sinai Peninsula two or three times and gave it back because the Arabs promised peace for land which they broke over and over and over. Israel will likely create a mile wide zone between Israel and Gaza where anyone found inside will be instantly vaporized by lasers. No rockets will be fired again from the Gaza area because no government that allows such will be allowed to govern the area.

For Jersey Girl:

What is the river of Egypt in Genesis 15 18?

In defining this Promised Land, God begins at the southern border with the "river of Egypt," which many scholars identify as the Wadi el-Arish River, not the Nile. The northern border would be the great Euphrates River.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brook_of_ ... :Gerar.jpg

https://www.bibleref.com/Genesis/15/Gen ... es%20River.

But who knows:

https://biblehub.com/commentaries/genesis/15-18.htm