We Need More Immigrants, not Fewer

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Gadianton
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Re: We Need More Immigrants, not Fewer

Post by Gadianton »

he bill won't actually ever shut down the border
Correct, it won't shut down the border. Nobody will ever shut down the border. Even if Trump becomes dictator, he will not shut down the border.
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: We Need More Immigrants, not Fewer

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ajax18 wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2024 7:43 pm
The Democrats were never going to be any reduction to mass and illegal immigration. It looks like blue states need us to keep bussing illegal immigrants to their homes and communities so they can see up close and personal the results of their core values.
The Republicans literally demanded specific policy, got it, and then killed it.

Ajax. For once in your damned life, actually read something instead of listening to grifters telling you what to think.

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Last edited by Doctor CamNC4Me on Wed Feb 07, 2024 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Vēritās
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Re: We Need More Immigrants, not Fewer

Post by Vēritās »

Contrary to the viral nonsense being propagated by disingenuous MAGA's, the Senate bill does not "allow 5,000 illegal immigrants to come in per day." Hundreds of my friends and family on social media keep repeating this. This is a blatant misrepresentation of what the Bill says but I guess we have to keep in mind today's MAGA cult is either incapable of comprehending basic English or just too dishonest and prideful to admit they were wrong. Here are the important facts about what the Bill includes and why Republicans should be embracing it:

1. It includes a provision that would give President authority to shut down the border if a threshold of 4,000 daily encounters is reached, and if it reaches 5,000 daily encounters over a week, then the law requires the border to be shut down whether President wants to or not. The key point here that MAGA's keep misrepresenting is that this number refers to encounters, not illegal crossings to be "allowed." To be sure, no migrants trying to enter the U.S. illegally would be allowed into the country unless they passed asylum interviews or were being held under government supervision.

So why doesn't Biden just close the border anyway like Trump did?

Answer: Trump never did because the law didn't allow him to. House Republicans are simply lying to you. We know this because Trump tried several times through executive orders to shut down the border but his efforts were rejected by the courts and for good reasons. He overstepped his authority. After his failed attempts to do it on his own, he then demanded Congress pass laws that would give him that authority, which is precisely what President Biden is asking. The only reason the House Republicans are now refusing him that authority is because Trump has instructed them to delay any legislation until after the election because they understand it will hurt Biden politically during the campaign. In short, they don't really believe their own BS when they depict the issue as an "end of the world, must be fixed immediately," crisis.

The fact is asylum law as it currently exists prevents any President from shutting down the border because the law allows asylum seekers their due process, which is why President Biden is asking Congress to pass a law to give him the authority to waive that process in times of emergency.

As president, Trump issued numerous executive orders designed to stem illegal immigration, relying primarily on a provision of the law that says the president can “suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens” whose entry he finds “would be detrimental to the interests of the United States." But many of his actions were struck down or altered by the courts.

And because several of his Executive Order's were deemed unlawful by the courts, Trump urged Congress in 2019 to change the asylum laws:

"...when people come into our country, we take those people out and we take them out very legally. They all have papers. And it’s a process. And I have an obligation to do it. They came in illegally; they go out legally. What the Democrats should be doing now is they should be changing the loopholes. They should be changing asylum. I’ve been talking to that — to you about this for a long time. They should be changing asylum." - Donald J. Trump, July 12, 2019

So, House Speaker Johnson lies when he claims Biden could simply "enforce current law." He alludes to Trump v. Hawaii, a case in which the courts decided the President has ample authority to impose restrictions on people trying to get into the country. However, what Abbott and Johnson don't seem to understand is that decision only applies to people who have yet to step foot on US soil. We already have laws about prohibiting people from coming in illegally, but once they do manage to get in, they are afforded all the same due process rights as are US citizens. This isn't a Leftist or Democrat thing, it is simply the way the law is written. So contrary to Republican claims, current law is useless with respect to impeding migrants who arrive at our border for the purpose of applying for asylum. What they're doing here is not illegal, and calling them illegals or continuing to call them illegals as they await their asylum hearing is a flat out lie. What Biden understands - and what Republicans also understand but are too dishonest to admit - is that a change in the law is needed in order to halt the asylum process entirely, which is precisely what Trump urged Congress to do five years ago.

2. The Bill effectively ends "catch and release," and it would do so by speeding up the adjudication of asylum cases to just six months instead of releasing the applicants and allowing them to stay in the United States for many years while they await hearings. As much as the GOP has been wailing and moaning about "catch and release" since the Obama administration, you'd think they'd be giddy over the prospect of seeing it done away with. But nope. It is simply too good to be true for them to allow it to happen under a Democrat who will get credit for it. So it can wait until the next Republican President is sworn in. The bill also raises the legal standard of proof to pass the initial screening for asylum, making it more difficult for asylum seekers to pass. Contrary to Right Wing myth, approval for asylum applicants is not easy or guaranteed. In fact, only 15% of all asylum applications were approved between 2017-2022 but that had already dropped below 12% in 2023. They actually had a higher chance of approval under Trump than Biden. But the process is a legal one that requires a lot of resources and time, and with a backlog of more than 2 million asylum cases yet to be heard, what needs to be done immediately is legislation that will properly fund the system so it can manage things legally and expeditiously.

But MAGA racists don't want that, because now they're demanding absolutely NO ONE can enter the southern border except US citizens. This puts the lie to their previous claims that they weren't against immigration, but they were only against "illegal" immigration. Well, if the system helps them become legal, suddenly we see they never really meant what they said because in reality they just want a whiter nation and allowing all of those darker people to join our society goes against their racist agenda.

3. Much to the chagrin of some immigration advocates, and contrary to some GOP lies on social media, the bill does absolutely nothing to provide a path to citizenship for existing undocumented "dreamers" who were brought here as children many years ago. Democrats pushed hard for that but couldn't get it in negotiations with GOP Senators. But the bill does provide a pathway to citizenship for Afghans paroled into the United States after the US’ withdrawal from Afghanistan.

4. The Bill includes around $20 billion in additional funding to expand the Department of Homeland Security's ability to catch, process, house, and transport migrants and to catch people smuggling fentanyl and other narcotics across the border. The plan also makes it easier for multiple DHS agencies to hire additional employees.

As Senator John Lankford summarized the intent of the bill: "The process is really set up to be able to process more people faster, make decisions faster, deport faster. But when the system gets overwhelmed, everyone gets deported until we get caught up."

This is by far the most restrictive immigration bill the Republicans could ever hope for, and it is unlikely that such a restrictive bill would ever get passed in the near future. At the end of the day, all of their indignant ranting about "America First" is really just a cover for what they really care about the most, and that is doing whatever it takes to make sure their team wins and sticking it to the libs.
"I am not an American ... In my view premarital sex should be illegal ...(there are) mentally challenged people with special needs like myself- Ajax18
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Re: We Need More Immigrants, not Fewer

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Gadianton wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2024 8:55 pm
he bill won't actually ever shut down the border
Correct, it won't shut down the border. Nobody will ever shut down the border. Even if Trump becomes dictator, he will not shut down the border.
Ajax is probably one of those idiots who think Trump "shut the border down." I've had people on social media tell me there were NO ILLEGAL CROSSINGS during Trump. They actually believe this crap.

In fact, illegal crossings reached a 12 year high in Trump's third year and it got so bad he had to expand "catch and release" which is what people like Ajax always attribute to Leftist policy.
"I am not an American ... In my view premarital sex should be illegal ...(there are) mentally challenged people with special needs like myself- Ajax18
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Re: We Need More Immigrants, not Fewer

Post by Vēritās »

Senator Murphy said there's $2 BILLION a day in trade that crosses the border. Our economy would die if we "closed the border." We should control the border not close it. When Biden spoke of shutting it down he was talking about the asylum process. Obvious the check points where US travelers cross back and forth are never going to be "shut down."

There's just a lot of bad faith actors who want to keep chaos at the border for political reasons and they are all on the MAGA side.

And yes Ajax, you clearly do want a border crisis because like Trump and everyone else subservient to him, you care more about Trump winning than anything else. You don't even care enough about the issue to read the friggin' Bill. If the border crisis were fixed before the election you would have to find something else to bitch about and you're running out of things to cry over now that the economy is booming and inflation is coming down.
"I am not an American ... In my view premarital sex should be illegal ...(there are) mentally challenged people with special needs like myself- Ajax18
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Re: We Need More Immigrants, not Fewer

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Regardless of what the majority of American peasants and commoners want, regardless of what democratically established law is, big government and big corporations will never stop illegal immigration. They'll let in as many as they want whenever they want proving again and again that they cannot be trusted.
And when the Confederates saw Jackson standing fearless like a stonewall, the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
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Re: We Need More Immigrants, not Fewer

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Vēritās wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2024 4:10 pm
And here is something else I always suspected to be true, turning out to be true. The reason we've seen such a huge wave of migrants flooding the border in recent years is partly due to the fact that Right Wing narratives of "open borders" travel south of the border so when they come they're shocked to see they're not open at all. Border Patrol agents are saying some of them are confused because they were under the belief Biden had "Open borders." Gee, wonder where they got that crazy idea.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/immigra ... ant-surge/
That rings truer than the MAGA Republican narrative about open borders given the documented fact that greater numbers of people are turned away from our borders or deported now than during Trump's tenure and that record quantities of drugs like Fentanyl are being successfully intercepted more than ever before. It's hilarious to me that they can't see the inherent contradiction of those claims with their claim of open borders! That the current increase of migrants converging on our borders is largely due to these migrants believing the Republicans' false claim of open borders makes the false claim of open borders all the more ridiculous!
No precept or claim is more suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
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Re: We Need More Immigrants, not Fewer

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ajax18 wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2024 2:03 am
Regardless of what the majority of American peasants and commoners want, regardless of what democratically established law is, big government and big corporations will never stop illegal immigration. They'll let in as many as they want whenever they want proving again and again that they cannot be trusted.
How many illegal immigrants have Republican presidents, not just Reagan, granted amnesty to? Anyone? Ajax? Hrm? Anyone?

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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Re: We Need More Immigrants, not Fewer

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ajax18 wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2024 2:03 am
Regardless of what the majority of American peasants and commoners want, regardless of what democratically established law is, big government and big corporations will never stop illegal immigration. They'll let in as many as they want whenever they want proving again and again that they cannot be trusted.
Why did Reps. Matt Gaetz (Fla.) Mo Brooks (Ala.) Louie Gohmert (Texas), Andy Biggs (Ariz.), MTG (GA.), and Scott Perry (PA.) seek pardons if they weren’t guilty of crimes?

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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ajax18
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Re: We Need More Immigrants, not Fewer

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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2024 6:13 pm
ajax18 wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2024 2:03 am
Regardless of what the majority of American peasants and commoners want, regardless of what democratically established law is, big government and big corporations will never stop illegal immigration. They'll let in as many as they want whenever they want proving again and again that they cannot be trusted.
Why did Reps. Matt Gaetz (Fla.) Mo Brooks (Ala.) Louie Gohmert (Texas), Andy Biggs (Ariz.), MTG (GA.), and Scott Perry (PA.) seek pardons if they weren’t guilty of crimes?

- Doc
They were guilty of being elected conservatives under a partisan Democrat justice system. Singing hymns in an abortion clinic can land you in jail for 10 years under this department of justice. But as long as you only steal $900 worth of merchandise per day, you'll never even be charged with a misdemeanor or have to give the stuff back. If Walgreens leaves your area, just call them rrrrrrrrracist. That'll fix it.

There's an old saying, no marriage is better than a bad marriage. In this case no border deal is way better than this one. We'll soon see if the American people buy into Veritas's view that more illegal immigrants will be a net benefit to the US economy. This is partly why Trump should just stay in his basement and let Biden and the Democrats bankrupt this country with their own bad policies. There's no way Trump can fix this and there is no need to fight them. If left alone the Democrats will self destruct.
And when the Confederates saw Jackson standing fearless like a stonewall, the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
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