Re: Are people really basically good?
Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2024 12:41 am
If only this were entirely true.Imwashingmypirate wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 11:59 amBut at the end of the day we choose who we want to be.
Internet Mormons, Chapel Mormons, Critics, Apologists, and Never-Mo's all welcome!
https://discussmormonism.com/
If only this were entirely true.Imwashingmypirate wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 11:59 amBut at the end of the day we choose who we want to be.
Is it not?honorentheos wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 12:41 amIf only this were entirely true.Imwashingmypirate wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 11:59 amBut at the end of the day we choose who we want to be.
I tend to agree with arguments against freewill that nonetheless hold that we don't know the difference so we have to act as if we do have freewill.
I'm not entirely sure free will and choice are the same thing. I think there are extenuating circumstances and situations that take away our control at times and put us into situations where we may be backed into a corner. But how we choose to be has to be our choice and I think choosing to be downright nasty to others is within a person's control for the most part. Yes we can react and later regret. But abusing and bullying people is a choice. When my mum asked my dad why he did the things he did after we left he said, because he could. I don't know if that was just another nasty dig or if he meant it but really it was because he could. But that implies that he had a choice and he choose to be horrible.honorentheos wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 12:51 amI tend to agree with arguments against freewill that nonetheless hold that we don't know the difference so we have to act as if we do have freewill.
I posted while you were writing this, not in response to it.Imwashingmypirate wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 1:04 amI'm not entirely sure free will and choice are the same thing. I think there are extenuating circumstances and situations that take away our control at times and put us into situations where we may be backed into a corner. But how we choose to be has to be our choice and I think choosing to be downright nasty to others is within a person's control for the most part. Yes we can react and later regret. But abusing and bullying people is a choice. When my mum asked my dad why he did the things he did after we left he said, because he could. I don't know if that was just another nasty dig or if he meant it but really it was because he could. But that implies that he had a choice and he choose to be horrible.honorentheos wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 12:51 amI tend to agree with arguments against freewill that nonetheless hold that we don't know the difference so we have to act as if we do have freewill.
I agree that it is very complicated. I also do not believe that we have the libertarian version of free will. Even if I’m right, holding people accountable for their behavior is important because our behavior is influenced by the nature of our interactions with others. I think we would see more bad behavior in a world where individuals were not held accountable for their actions, whether through the influence on conscious or unconscious choice.honorentheos wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 12:39 amThanks for restating this, res. It was a helpful, appreciated reminder in general.Res Ipsa wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 7:07 pmWhat Dr. Bokovoy said reminds me of the cognitive bias called fundamental attribution error. When we see someone else do something bad, we assign the "badness" to their nature. When we do bad things, we point out all of the contingent circumstances that led us to make a bad choice. What Dr. Bokovy is doing is similar to saying "extend the same benefit of the doubt to others that you extend to yourself."
I don't subscribe to the belief in libertarian freewill, yet see society requiring accountability as if it were infact so. Reconcile this with our inherent expectation for justice gets complicated.