The baby is not just a part of the woman's body, but an individual child of God made in the image of God with as much right to life as its mother.
And for you, 'a baby' includes every fertilized ovum, right?
Well, quite a high proportion of those little dears fail to implant, and hence are simply discharged from the womb in a slightly more heavy period. So every woman who has an extra heavy period should rush to a specialised surgery unit with her sanitary towel to have the ovum, sorry, 'baby' located and reimplanted. Simply putting the towel in a bin in the women's bathroom is ... well, according to your logic, murder - right?
At the very least, every heavy period should be given a decent Christian burial, just in case.
Do you know what "reductio ad absurdum' means, I wonder?
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Mayan Elephant:
Not only have I denounced the Big Lie, I have denounced the Big lie big lie.
And for you, 'a baby' includes every fertilized ovum, right?
Not necessarily, but I do believe that our disrespect and abuse of our creative powers is offensive to God. Such disrespect is also a recipe for child poverty and juvenile delinquency that plagues our society today.
Last edited by ajax18 on Sun Apr 14, 2024 2:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
And when the Confederates saw Jackson standing fearless like a stonewall, the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
And for you, 'a baby' includes every fertilized ovum, right?
Not necessarily, but I do believe that our disrespect and abuse of our creative powers is offensive to God. [...]
So just to get things clear, at what stage does a fertilised ovum achieve the status of 'baby'?
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Mayan Elephant:
Not only have I denounced the Big Lie, I have denounced the Big lie big lie.
... disrespect and abuse of our creative powers is offensive to God. Such disrespect is also a recipe for child poverty juvenile delinquency that plagues our society today.
"We offer evidence that legalized abortion has contributed signicantly to recent crime reductions. Crime began to fall roughly eighteen years after abortion legalization. The five states that allowed abortion in 1970 experienced declines earlier than the rest of the nation, which legalized in 1973 with Roe v. Wade. States with high abortion rates in the 1970s and 1980s experienced greater crime reductions in the 1990s. In high abortion states, only arrests of those born after abortion legalization fall relative to low abortion states. Legalized abortion appears to account for as much as 50 percent of the recent drop in crime."
Is it not reasonable that children born to and brought up by women who did not want them will live under worse circumstances (and hence be more likely to turn to crime as adults) than those born to women who bear them willingly and have the resources to look after them? It does look rather like it ...
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Mayan Elephant:
Not only have I denounced the Big Lie, I have denounced the Big lie big lie.
Just to get things clear, Ajax and typical right-wing men couldn't care less about abortion. Ajax's biggest gripe in the world is women of color having kids that they can't afford. He calls them "welfare queens". It's the same with my right-wing friend. Like Ajax, he comes unglued constantly over taxes and government spending and welfare. Their own bottom line financially is their biggest life concern, and they are vocal about that.
There is a clue about what the problem is, however. Like Ajax, my right-wing friend is hugely concerned about immorality. I'm sure Ajax is a straight-shooter, but my friend, like many right-wing men, is completely obsessed with sex. By his own accounts, there isn't an establishment out there he hasn't frequented in the past, even married and as a born-again Christian. But hey, we're all sinners and have fallen short, right? And so for the typical right-wing man, the fervent lectures on when life begins are all about punishing women for having sex. If you do the crime, you do the time, so to speak. And this desire to punish is deeply rooted in their own frustrations for not getting what they feel they deserve in that department.
Never believe a right-wing man who says he's pro-life. Now, there are right-wing women who are in fact, very sincere about their pro-life beliefs. I had a relationship a long time ago with Christian woman who was a pro-life activist of sorts, and there is absolutely no question about the sincerity. Much of that sincerity was evidenced in the kind of things she did in her life to help children and also help teens in trouble.
It's bad enough to argue with right-wingers over things they believe that have no basis in fact. It's even worse to argue with them over things they say the believe but that they don't even really actually believe. I'd just advise people not to invest too much effort arguing with Ajax over something he doesn't really believe when he can't even get an argument off the ground for the things he really does sincerely believe.
I am intrigued by the idea of Dr. Dan Peterson traveling back in time and giving Joseph Smith pointers. Martin Harris would have to be brought in to take notes. At least we could later read about the Stick of Dan.
I think I'd like to visit Arizona. Apparently, it's 1846 there. How exciting.
If anyone is curious (I doubt it, but on the off chance someone might wonder) why I've taken up the fight against religion after having abandoned it for so long, it's because all these unverified claims are the premise behind enacting idiotic, dangerous, primitive laws that apply to everyone, not just the idiots who believe this crap. I have no patience for people with religious beliefs trying to make laws based on their BS.
Religious nuts: You don't get any credit for making crap up and then using your BS as an authority for stupid legislation. Go ahead and prove that "life begins at conception" demonstrating how dead sperm and a dead egg suddenly come to life when merged. I'd like to know how dead sperm can swim. I'd like to know how a dead egg can react to dead sperm.
Hmm. Judging from the context of your post, it looks like Arizona passed some sort of law regarding abortion with which you disagree.
Will you please provide us with some further context, specifically the details of this law and why you disagree with them?
"It’s ironic that the Church that people claim to be true, puts so much effort into hiding truths."
--I Have Questions, 01-25-2024
First, in 1846 I believe Arizona was part of Mexico and the Catholic Church had a huge pull in the area.
2nd, I never understood the Mormon view which was/is abortion was/is bad except in the case of rape, incest or the life of the mother. If one believes there is a life or one is forming, then why in those cases is it okay. The fetus is faultless. The Mormon view to me does not make any sense and never did at any time. There was a lot of trust in the three separates being thing but with abortion no, it never made sense to me as innocence is innocence no matter what the situation. My pro-choice friends at work could not understand my black and white approach. It’s tough call and at times I Zig zag back and forth up and down trying to understand a view I don’t agree with.
In the 1970s the Mormon Church, as it was called at the time even showed an anti-abortion film at one Wednesday night Mutual and one young woman ran out of the chapel crying. Decades later my little sister let me know who regularly attended church, dances and had abortions. To say I was floored is an understatement.
Today with testing, doctors and technicians can tell if the child has a high likelihood of experiencing disability and distress during their short or long life on this earth. In the book Why Do Bad Things Happen to Good People, Rabbi Harold Kushner discusses this and his personal experience of his young son's experience with having normal growth suddenly stop at age three and then quickly turning into an old man and dying at age fourteen of heart failure and at that time he could only sleep if standing up. Orthodox religions only marrying within the Orthodox religion and within the community has perked the ears, observations and thoughts of the scientific community.
The Catholic Church doesn't understand the Mormon Church's view and does not think if conception occurs during rape, incest or the life of the mother that termination of the pregnancy is warranted. Opposition to termination of the pregnancy is consistent as the Catholic Church also opposes Capital Punishment. Many Catholic women have chosen birth of a child over chemotherapy only to die shortly from the cancer and the child is left with the father and the infant's siblings. And Catholics marry once. To marry again is to commit adultery.
As to incest, recessive genes could link up which could cause some sort of or type of disorder causing pain during the life as a child or as an adult, but this is not always the case and sometimes the child is fine and adopted and no one ever knows the method of conception.
If in 1870, Utah became a nation called the Kingdom of Dessert and Brigham Young the King and polygamy the norm, science today would predict a significant growth in the disabled population and spiritual wifery would eventually be a disaster for many innocent children. The USA was lucky without the needed science and just said stop polygamy or we are taking all your property. You follow the multiple wives in religious text, and we will follow the conquer the land and take the booty. In the 21st century, fundamentalist Mormons are finding out what can happen at times when those closely related have intercourse, conceive and have children, and those in science are watching them closely.
I see the concern of putting religious views into rules passed by the people as many of the codes in the Hebrew Bible are codes in state statues. Many times, the codes are from other religions too, sometimes the dates the codes were written are earlier than Hebrew texts and at times later. Murder, taking things belonging to another etc., are some of the codes in the Hebrew Bible and other religious text too, but as we progress in today’s world, we realize that weeding out some of those codes is necessary.
Codes such as taking the life of an adult or child engaging in acts of incest or bestiality are insane and inhumane. People ae not perfect and make knucklehead mistakes, especially those under twenty. In the USA, CPS will remove a brother that impregnated his sister as just the threat of death to the brother by the parents if the brother is not removed from the home is wrong and jurisdictional in court.
A Muslim father believing the oldest daughter to have dishonored her family by marring a Jew is just cause for him murdering her is complete lunacy and thankfully we have modern laws, courts, judges, attorneys, law enforcement, jails, prisons, etc. to deal with those type of acts. In the past and in religious texts it was okay to issue death threats, but in the last week a Muslim woman found out to stand at a podium when it was her turn to speak and issue such threats to a Mayor and Councilman in the USA will get your sorry self-locked up and charged with Felony Terrorism.
“one of the important things for anybody in power is to distinguish between what you have the right to do and what is right to do." Potter Stewart, associate justice of the Supreme Court - 1958 to 1981.
Earlier this week, the Arizona Supreme Court ruled that a Civil War-era state law that amounts to a near-total ban on abortion can be enforced, putting access to reproductive care for about 1.6 million people of reproductive age under immediate threat.
I have to question how an adult person in the US hadn't heard the story or at least the general headline? Seemed like it was in every feed and on every news program I saw.
