Traveling Back in Time

[Some Schmo]

I think I'd like to visit Arizona. Apparently, it's 1846 there. How exciting.

If anyone is curious (I doubt it, but on the off chance someone might wonder) why I've taken up the fight against religion after having abandoned it for so long, it's because all these unverified claims are the premise behind enacting idiotic, dangerous, primitive laws that apply to everyone, not just the idiots who believe this crap. I have no patience for people with religious beliefs trying to make laws based on their BS.

Religious nuts: You don't get any credit for making crap up and then using your BS as an authority for stupid legislation. Go ahead and prove that "life begins at conception" demonstrating how dead sperm and a dead egg suddenly come to life when merged. I'd like to know how dead sperm can swim. I'd like to know how a dead egg can react to dead sperm.

Go ahead. Make your case. Otherwise, you should shut the “F” up on this topic because you're ignorant about it, and you just sound dumb. I don't care if you believe it (no harm in that), but you should keep your nonsense to yourself until you've actually thought the topic through.

damned Arizona GOP. Absolute morons.

[Jersey Girl]

I think I'd like to visit Arizona. Apparently, it's 1846 there. How exciting.

If anyone is curious (I doubt it, but on the off chance someone might wonder) why I've taken up the fight against religion after having abandoned it for so long, it's because all these unverified claims are the premise behind enacting idiotic, dangerous, primitive laws that apply to everyone, not just the idiots who believe this crap. I have no patience for people with religious beliefs trying to make laws based on their BS.

Laws should be made with consideration to our collective population. Our elected officials (local straight up to the White House) are meant to be representatives of us. ALL of us.

Religious nuts: You don't get any credit for making crap up and then using your BS as an authority for stupid legislation. Go ahead and prove that "life begins at conception" demonstrating how dead sperm and a dead egg suddenly come to life when merged. I'd like to know how dead sperm can swim. I'd like to know how a dead egg can react to dead sperm.

I don't know where these dead things are coming from. Can you explain further?

Go ahead. Make your case. Otherwise, you should shut the “F” up on this topic because you're ignorant about it, and you just sound dumb. I don't care if you believe it (no harm in that), but you should keep your nonsense to yourself until you've actually thought the topic through.

I've made my case many times here already. I'm pro life and pro choice. We already had choice. The choice to terminate a pregnancy and the choice not to. I prefer it that way. When life begins is something I decide for myself based on what I think and believe. I can't make that decision for another woman. She has a right to make it herself based on what she thinks and believes. When a procedure is or is not medically necessary is a decision to be made with a trusted physician (and prayer if applicable), not an elected official. I invite our elected officials to stay out of our lady parts.

damned Arizona GOP. Absolute morons.

I haven't read the decision but just on the surface (head lines) I agree with your sentiment.

[huckelberry]

Religious nuts: You don't get any credit for making crap up and then using your BS as an authority for stupid legislation. Go ahead and prove that "life begins at conception" demonstrating how dead sperm and a dead egg suddenly come to life when merged. I'd like to know how dead sperm can swim. I'd like to know how a dead egg can react to dead sperm.

I don't know where these dead things are coming from. Can you explain further?

I am pretty sure Some Schmo is observing that life does not begin at conception because the sperm and egg are already alive. A point, all right, but probably not the last word in the argument.

[Some Schmo]

I'll say this again (in a different way) to add clarity (and I feel the need to do this because I've calmed down since writing that post): when I say "religious nuts" I'm talking about the specific people who don't consider the repercussions for everyone in society when they try to enforce their brand of morality on everyone else through legislation. I'm talking about irrational people who let their cherished beliefs supersede logic, reason and evidence.

What I'm not saying is that everyone who is religious is a nut. Just to be clear.

[Some Schmo]

Laws should be made with consideration to our collective population. Our elected officials (local straight up to the White House) are meant to be representatives of us. ALL of us.

Exactly.

I don't know where these dead things are coming from. Can you explain further?

Dead things aren't coming from anywhere (well, not completely true, but let's not get bogged down with gross details). The point is that both the sperm and the egg are just as alive as a zygote, otherwise they could never come together to form the zygote. If "pro-life" folks care about life at that level, then by their own logic, any man who's ever masturbated (even once) is a genocidal mass-murderer.

It's why I previously coined the word progenocide (the murder of all your potential offspring - not to be confused with "pro-genocide" like Hitler, et al. seemed to be). That would include a vasectomy, a tubal ligation, or any other form of birth control.

Apparently, simple family planning, actually taking parental responsibility seriously, is evil if it goes against an imagined god's will. It's stuff like this that makes it easy to criticize religion. The practice of religion (at least in public) is begging to be mocked.

I've made my case many times here already. I'm pro life and pro choice. We already had choice. The choice to terminate a pregnancy and the choice not to. I prefer it that way. When life begins is something I decide for myself based on what I think and believe. I can't make that decision for another woman. She has a right to make it herself based on what she thinks and believes. When a procedure is or is not medically necessary is a decision to be made with a trusted physician (and prayer if applicable), not an elected official. I invite our elected officials to stay out of our lady parts.

I already knew this about you. Our positions are the same for all intents and purposes.

[Jersey Girl]

I'll say this again (in a different way) to add clarity (and I feel the need to do this because I've calmed down since writing that post): when I say "religious nuts" I'm talking about the specific people who don't consider the repercussions for everyone in society when they try to enforce their brand of morality on everyone else through legislation. I'm talking about irrational people who let their cherished beliefs supersede logic, reason and evidence.

What I'm not saying is that everyone who is religious is a nut. Just to be clear.

Yeah, I get that. Just a reminder that we're all not complete nutters who want to control everything and conform everyone to their thoughts and beliefs right on down to a woman's decision about her own body.

I mean what's next? Ethnic cleansing? Get outta here.

[Imwashingmypirate]

The point is that both the sperm and the egg are just as alive as a zygote, otherwise they could never come together to form the zygote. If "pro-life" folks care about life at that level, then by their own logic, any man who's ever masturbated (even once) is a genocidal mass-murderer.

Never thought of it like that. Interesting.

I like JGs view. I believe abortion is killing. But also believe that sometimes it is necessary and so not killing in the same sense as murdering a physical born living being outside of a uterus.

I do not agree with the anti abortion laws at all.
I think they are dangerous and reckless.

I think, I personally wouldn't abort and I honestly don't think I could in situations where other might want to. I wouldn't abort because of down syndrome or anything like that. I do believe it is an individual choice. I do feel though that if people are going to do it that they could try to do it earlier. But not sure how much difference it makes really.

I guess the debate is all about how much people value life at varying levels. I'm about to put poison down to kill mice. (Not the same I know) And I feel bad.

[Jersey Girl]

I like JGs view. I believe abortion is killing. But also believe that sometimes it is necessary and so not killing in the same sense as murdering a physical born living being outside of a uterus.

I do not agree with the anti abortion laws at all.
I think they are dangerous and reckless.

Let's just put it this way. In a country, the U.S., where the first child abuse cases had to be prosecuted using ANIMAL abuse law, our legislators aren't exactly known for their skillful discernment, their righteousness or their intellectual honesty. So far as I am concerned, when politicians can be bought...then nothing has changed in that regard.

Again. They need to stay out of women's health concerns. Oh wait...let me show you how it doesn't make sense.

We need to outlaw abortion because...it's a baby.

Unless the woman is raped...then it's what? Not a baby?

Unless there is incest...then it's what? Not a baby?

Unless the woman's life is in danger...then it's what? Not a baby?

So the woman is more important than the baby...unless she's not.

Give. Me. A. Break.

It's total insanity.

[Brack]

Arizona didn't vote to reinstate this draconian anti-abortion law from 1864 when we voted for a Democratic Governor, SofS, and Attorney General in November of 2022. There will very likely be an initiative on the ballot that will enshrine abortion rights into the Arizona Constitution this coming November election. If it is on the ballot within this state, we Arizona voters will pass it.

[ajax18]

Arizona didn't vote to reinstate this draconian anti-abortion law from 1864 when we voted for a Democratic Governor, SofS, and Attorney General in November of 2022. There will very likely be an initiative on the ballot that will enshrine abortion rights into the Arizona Constitution this coming November election. If it is on the ballot within this state, we Arizona voters will pass it.

Democrats are running on this because it led them to victory in 2022 in spite of their horrendous economic record. All the Supreme court did was send the abortion issue to the states. Thank you for pointing out that Arizona will not be going back in time to 1864. That being said, God frowns upon those that choose to legally murder his little ones in the name of womens rights and for the sole purpose of whether or not the child is convenient to the lifestyle of the mother. The baby is not just a part of the woman's body, but an individual child of God made in the image of God with as much right to life as its mother. A good mother gives her life to her child and would die for it if necessary. And in losing her own life she gains a better life in Jesus Christ. He who shall save his life shall lose it, and he who shall lose his life shall save it.