Deeply moving essay from wife of a Trump supporter.

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Kishkumen
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Re: Deeply moving essay from wife of a Trump supporter.

Post by Kishkumen »

Dr. Shades wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2024 4:33 am
That's a good thing, 'cause instructors should share their political opinions about as often as they share their religious opinions.
People should all learn how to have polite, intelligent discussions without having a meltdown. Long before college would be the time to start. The problem is not sharing opinions. The problem is not knowing how to discuss things.
That's weird, 'cause history seems both politically innocuous and necessary at the same time.
Hah! Um, yeah, but how people interpret history, the story told has political ramifications.
So, don't the snowflakes who gave in to the challenge share some of the blame?
What on earth are you talking about?
Perhaps, but disrespecting a check or a balance doesn't cause it to stop working.
The government isn’t a machine. People impact it by doing or not doing what they are supposed to all the time.
I disagree. It's a philosophy that values institutions and community action to such a great extent that it advocates removing government interference therein so people can more freely engage in them. What's so disagreeable about that?
Government is made of institutions and community actions. That’s what representative government is.
Never once have I done anything tantamount to calling anyone a sissy for having "valid concerns" about our constitutional republic. Hell, I have such concerns myself! Let's face it, though: Musicians and songwriters quitting creating, being "terrified," being "petrified," having a panic attack and having to leave work, and rescheduling an appointment because you just couldn't function isn't symptomatic of having "valid concerns." They're dead giveaways of hyper-snowflake-ism. We, and the country, have enough resilience to weather the upcoming presidency, just like we did last time.
LOL! OK. I am glad that’s not what you mean . . . Oh, wait, you then go on to accuse musicians and songwriters of being sissies.
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Kishkumen
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Re: Deeply moving essay from wife of a Trump supporter.

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America did Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Objectively terrible wars. Not only that but America’s intelligence agencies spent decades overthrowing governments only to leave them ten times worse than they were.

What I don’t understand is how you can equate our work in WWII with those. It’s a completely backwards understanding of modern history, at odds with (I would hazard to guess) nearly every modern historian. The marshal plan, for example, was an unprecedented success. Never before in history had a nation so thoroughly destroyed another, and so thoroughly restored them and their sovereignty. Japan and Germany are living testaments to the success of the western geopolitical policy.

That’s the part that the Russians and their internet propagandists miss. They want to equate Russia and the US’s struggle for power. But the US and NATO countries are not invading neighbors. Anyone who can’t see the difference is completely lost.
The voice of reason speaks. Indeed.
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Re: Deeply moving essay from wife of a Trump supporter.

Post by ceeboo »

Dr. Shades wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2024 4:33 am
Kishkumen wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2024 11:45 am
The intent is to make faculty feel like they can share no political opinions in the classroom or be very public political statements. The chilling effect of it all has been very effective.
That's a good thing, 'cause instructors should share their political opinions about as often as they share their religious opinions.
Indeed!

Far too often, instructors spend their "teaching time" expressing their personal political views to rooms full of impressionable students. My daughter, who attended the University of Michigan for four years, experienced these "personal political view sermons" many times by many instructors.
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Re: Deeply moving essay from wife of a Trump supporter.

Post by Morley »

Dr. Shades wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2024 4:33 am
Morley wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2024 2:43 am
How about the US Civil War? Should the North have minded their own business and let the South secede?
Let me answer your question with a question: Should Great Britain have minded its own business and let the 13 colonies secede?
1. Personally, I think the British had no other option but to fight it out. But what good does me answering your question do? We've already established that you and I are answering questions like this in completely different ways. I still don't know whether you think the North should have minded their own business and let the South secede.

2. The reason America entered World War II was that Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, and then, a few hours later, invaded Philippines (which was then part of the US). Immediately after the bombing of Pearl Harbor, Germany declared war on the US. It was only after Japan had attacked and Germany had declared war that Congress decided that the US should enter WWII. Should the US have just turned the other cheek and handed over her possessions while watching her people being slaughtered?
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Re: Deeply moving essay from wife of a Trump supporter.

Post by Morley »

Dr. Shades wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2024 5:18 am
So America's meddling is bad when it doesn't work, but good when it does.
So, a marriage is bad when it doesn't work, but good when it does? So, an investment strategy is bad when it doesn't work, but good when it does?

A qualified 'yes' answer to all three questions.

A successful outcome is certainly one of the legitimate metrics when measuring 'good.'
Dr. Shades wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2024 5:18 am
So the 500,000 American lives lost, and the trillions of dollars of increase of the national debt, were worth it?
Absolutely.
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Re: Deeply moving essay from wife of a Trump supporter.

Post by Gadianton »

I can understand isolationism to a point, and the more extreme the isolationism, the more I understand it. Sending young people to die for causes that aren't their own itself is troubling enough for anyone to think twice about war. If the answer is always, "that war shouldn't have been fought", I'm sympathetic. If that includes letting the South secede, then fine, as the same position would hold it would be wrong for the new southern nation to ever rise up against the North for any reason. Where I become skeptical that "peace and love" is just a ploy by a right-winger advancing the Ku Klux Klan, is when the US should never have gotten involved in anything, but it's perfectly understandable why Putin attacked Ukraine. The narrative of the culture-war right at the moment is that the US shouldn't be helping Ukraine, but a civil war where liberals are executed is perfectly fine.

I don't see anything from Shades otherwise that can be linked to Alex Jones and Tucker, so I'd ask this another way. If we were to rank wars on a scale of 1-10 with 1 being "that war was absolutely wrong and never should have been fought," 5 is "perhaps it was better not to fight the war, but understandable that it was fought", and 10 being "that war most definitely should have been fought"; list 3 wars in world history that rank at a 5 or higher along with the ranking, and the reason for the ranking.
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Re: Deeply moving essay from wife of a Trump supporter.

Post by canpakes »

Dr. Shades wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2024 2:16 am
Kishkumen wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2024 12:22 am
Bonkers.
Talk is cheap. Explain why getting involved in a world war is preferable to remaining out of it. Bonus points if you can do so without citing the propaganda of the military-industrial complex that makes billions from war.
Why do you Hate Capitalism, Shades?
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Re: Deeply moving essay from wife of a Trump supporter.

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Donald Trump says he will push to end daylight saving time. The other day it was announced he would be cutting Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 970595007/

Once those programs to aid old people are ended, will the Church step up and offer to house the senior citizens in some abandoned warehouses in the Salt Lake Area (with mandatory baptisms and church services, of course)?
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
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Re: Deeply moving essay from wife of a Trump supporter.

Post by Moksha »

Dr. Shades wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2024 5:18 am
So the 500,000 American lives lost, and the trillions of dollars of increase of the national debt, were worth it?
How much tribute would we have paid to the German Fatherland?
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Re: Deeply moving essay from wife of a Trump supporter.

Post by Some Schmo »

It's quite clear that if you are a complete ignoramus, it will seem like the people who are rightly concerned by the outcome of the election will seem like snowflakes, because they are in a panic about the shitstorm coming, and you are keenly unaware of the shitstorm coming.

America is at the mercy of its idiots. I think there might be too much lead in the water. Americans are damned retarded, for the most part.
Religion is for people whose existential fear is greater than their common sense.

The god idea is popular with desperate people.
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