Calling it "Politically Motivated"

[Gunnar]

This is freaking unreal! Completely off the charts NUTS!!

The ridiculous real story behind the tariff plan that turned Donald Trump into a global disaster
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJbZCbBLqkk

That's outrageous that Trump based his plan on a fictional economist invented by Ron Navarro whose every economic prediction has embarrassingly failed! Not only that, but he is also an ex-con who has served time in jail for contempt of Congress! Navarro is yet another example of a Trump appointee chosen based only on his loyalty to Trump!

[Markk]

:: things ::

OK, so still kvetching about Biden, and dodging the issue of what’s really killing off the middle class. No change there.

The kids and I were having some pistachios as a late snack, and had built a nice little pile of shells, and it occurred to me that choosing to ask them questions instead might yield a more productive conversation about tariffs than trying to do so here with you … ‘them’, in this case, being the pile of pistachio shells.

Cakes, I have shown you clearly, by your links, that the Biden Harris plan, had programs that pan out, such as chips and the others. I also showed you through your links that their plan was to issue high tariffs. I showed you from links that other Democrat leaders believed in These are just fact. You voted for Harris I assume, of at least supported that ticket over Trump....so I believe my questions and comparisons are fair. I guess you don't.

I am trying to move forward. I concede that if tariffs don't work, then, well, they don't work and we will need another plan, because what is undeniable is that our middle class is in decline. Our once healthy manufacturing cities are struggling.

So, my questions to you are fair, if we want to move this forward, the alternative "plan" is a fair question. So far I have concluded by your opposition to tariffs, your support for free trade and large US deficits, and taxing the top 1% who are key job innovators and job makers. So again, my questions are fair and giving you a chance to explain what the democrat plan is.

There you go again, just pulling things out of thin air. We’ve never discussed China’s ‘best interests’, but if you had merely asked instead of imagining how I’d respond, I’d reply, “of course they don’t”. Neither do we have China’s best interests in mind. Why would either of us?

Anyhow, good luck with your plan to tax the middle class an additional 25% while having no idea where that money is going, let alone how it could find its way back into helping that middle class, or ‘restore manufacturing’. The 1% needs our money more than we do, obviously.

Cakes, I have been injecting China, and their unfair trade practices into this conversation almost from the beginning, and built on it from your links that read that Biden, Pelosi, Sanders and other Democrats supported tariffs, and rejected China as being allowed into the WTO and given favored nation status....which in my opinion Bush sold us out, with Clintons support by signing NAFTA and the WTO into policy.

I asked you " In regard to China, and this is important to this conversation. Do you believe that they have our best interests, or any other nations best interests in mind?" and you ignored my question.

I then asked again, " I get you don't agree with them, but what is the other plan if we keep NAFTA, the WTO, and China as a favored nation? Do you believe China has our best interests in mind? That they want to help us?" and you ignored it again.

I then, after these two requests commented...," I think you are having a hard time dealing with, or admitting that China does not have our best interests in mind." based on you ignoring my questions.

But now that you did answer the question, added to it fairly.....why should we as a nation allow China to take advantage of us in trade, and do things like stealing our innovations and technologies, while growing in military might partly because of this, and having the potential to cut us off, if things go south, of products we are dependent on? And example is masks and other things we were in short supply of during covid, which personally opened my eyes. But anyways as I wrote this is important to the conversation, and further more why Trump, a democrat then, spoke hard against NAFTA, WTO; basically free trade.

Anyhow, good luck with your plan to tax the middle class an additional 25% while having no idea where that money is going, let alone how it could find its way back into helping that middle class, or ‘restore manufacturing’. The 1% needs our money more than we do, obviously.

Lol....do you know where the money is going now? DOGE is at least trying to find out and even given their mistakes are uncovering an alarming amount of waste. USAID, and what they actually do , and where our monies go is also alarming.

Again I hope the plan works, it worked in the past and it works for other countries on the positive side of it. My hopes are that countries come to the table and negotiate to help balance the deficit. China will be a different story, but I hope not. If it is true that countries like Vietnam want to just zero out trades, that is good. Do you hope the plan works or do you want it to fail, just for political reasons?

[Markk]

This is freaking unreal! Completely off the charts NUTS!!

The ridiculous real story behind the tariff plan that turned Donald Trump into a global disaster
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJbZCbBLqkk

That's outrageous that Trump based his plan on a fictional economist invented by Ron Navarro whose every economic prediction has embarrassingly failed! Not only that, but he is also an ex-con who has served time in jail for contempt of Congress! Navarro is yet another example of a Trump appointee chosen based only on his loyalty to Trump!

Trump was talking about reciprocal tariffs and how we are being ripped off by foreign nations, along with Democrats like Pelosi in the 80's 90's. You don't have to agree but at least review the history. he took out a Times add in 87.

https://youtu.be/7kM0yl8W0gQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8wJc7vHcTs

[Kishkumen]

Markk doesn’t see the difference between talking about something in 1987 and having a hair-brained plan to implement it today.

[Markk]

Markk doesn’t see the difference between talking about something in 1987 and having a hair-brained plan to implement it today.

I guess ignore, foe, or what ever it is called it is down?

Do you believe and support Free Trade?

[Kishkumen]

I guess ignore, foe, or what ever it is called it is down?

Do you believe and support Free Trade?

Markk, I don’t see the point in answering your questions. I have better things to do with my time.

[Markk]

I guess ignore, foe, or what ever it is called it is down?

Do you believe and support Free Trade?

Markk, I don’t see the point in answering your questions. I have better things to do with my time.

Lol, well at least you're reading them.

[canpakes]

Cakes, I have shown you clearly, by your links, that the Biden Harris plan, had programs that pan out, such as chips and the others. I also showed you through your links that their plan was to issue high tariffs. I showed you from links that other Democrat leaders believed in These are just fact.

Yes. Those are The Plans you keep asking about. The ones that you admit to seeing, even if you kept asking me to see them for some reason. If the Biden Administration had gone on to become the Biden Administration Part II, then those likely would have remained ‘The Plans’ exclusive of any new changes. But - as you also know - the Democrats cannot continue any of The Plans, or modify existing The Plans, or reformulate new The Plans, so I don’t know why - as you know all of this already - you keep asking what The Plans are of the Democrats. : )

So far I have concluded by your opposition to tariffs,

Where did I say that I was opposed to all tariffs? You just made that up. Rather, I’ve said that I don’t agree that they will achieve your goal of a glorious resurgence of an empowered Middle Class through a glorious resurgence of a manufacturing wonderland pushing out plastic bowls, water pumps, Squishmallows and Trump-badged merchandise (which, oddly enough, the vast majority of which is made … overseas … how odd ….), or any of the other 100,000 items that we import and that are bought by Americans.

your support for free trade

Yes, generally, it’s preferable where and when possible.

and large US deficits,

Nope. Put that one on the ‘Markk just made that up’ list, too.

and taxing the top 1% who are key job innovators and job makers.

At the rate no different than from before the last budget-busting tax cuts for those in Trump’s Friends and Families plan.

By the way, if you think that the top 1% are the only innovators and job creators - or even the largest portion of folks that fit those entirely squishy terms - then I have some swampland at Mar-a-Lago to sell you, and possibly some Trump memecoins. Wanna see what I got? I take payments.

So again, my questions are fair and giving you a chance to explain what the democrat plan is.

Great question. You just answered it a few lines above.

Will you remember that you answered it before asking again? I’m beginning to worry about you. ; )

Cakes, I have been injecting China,…

Sounds like a great topic for another thread. Trump has levied tariffs on 16,479 nations, principalities, countries, territories, city-states, commonwealths, random islands and an assortment of oddly-named alleyways in Jersey City that he thought were inhabited by dirty, evil foreigners, so if you’re going to start taking each one on in a case-by-case question-and-answer session (especially one in which I’ll have to repeat my answers a dozen times before you admit to seeing them), then that’s best left for a new and different thread.

[Markk]

Yes. Those are The Plans you keep asking about. The ones that you admit to seeing, even if you kept asking me to see them for some reason. If the Biden Administration had gone on to become the Biden Administration Part II, then those likely would have remained ‘The Plans’ exclusive of any new changes. But - as you also know - the Democrats cannot continue any of The Plans, or modify existing The Plans, or reformulate new The Plans, so I don’t know why - as you know all of this already - you keep asking what The Plans are of the Democrats. : )

I asked Chap " So Biden and Harris had no plan? What is the democratic caucusses plan? "

You replied....I’ll take that one on, for a single post, because that’s all that is required to dispel Markk’s myth. The Biden Administration achieved significant success with increasing American manufacturing, which was acknowledged in the link given to Markk on that last page, that he ignored:



Then you pasted links that you did not even research out that showed otherwise....including Biden tariff plan.

My question, which you said you would take on, includes what the caucuses plan is....so, that is why I am asking.

So guess your opinion is, I think, that the current plan, was the Biden plan, which included tariffs....is that fair? But after that I am not really sure what else is really a plan other than links you gave me that proved to be mostly gaslighting.

Do you think the current caucus supports free trade? Again, you said you would take this on.

[Markk]

Where did I say that I was opposed to all tariffs?

You said you agreed with free trade, in regard to NAFTA, The WTO, and I believe China as being awarded premier trade partner status....I don't recall you supporting tariffs ....but hey, maybe I messed that one up, sorry. So you do support tariffs. So, what tariffs do you support and what percentages do you believe are fair? We can build off of your answer.

Rather, I’ve said that I don’t agree that they will achieve your goal of a glorious resurgence of an empowered Middle Class through a glorious resurgence of a manufacturing wonderland pushing out plastic bowls, water pumps, Squishmallows and Trump-badged merchandise (which, oddly enough, the vast majority of which is made … overseas … how odd ….), or any of the other 100,000 items that we import and that are bought by Americans.

Where did I say tariff alone would do that, in fact I said they would not and that they are the most visible thing , but there is other thing that will also need to be done. Like middle class tax cuts, incentives and tax breaks for machinery, drilling and exporting our natural resources and incentives for foreign countries to invest here, which is happening.

But anyways what tariffs do you support and what do we do when we are on that losing side of tariffs to correct that?