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This is WHY no ONE wants the PALESTINIANS!

I just encountered this very informative 31 minute long video that describes the current situation in the middle east and the history of how it got that way. I now understand more than I ever did before why the situation is so messed up. It explains why so many groups there are so angry at each other. Arabs, Jews and Palestinians alike all got raw deals from disputes and machinations and broken promises and selfish interests by the Ottoman Empire, The French, Arabs, Syrians, Lebanese, British, Jordanians and Russians all working against each other and hapless Palestinians and, to some extent, even the Jews, to maximize their own selfish influence and material gains. The British, French and Arabs were among the worst culprits contributing to the mess. The Palestinians were betrayed, perhaps most of all, by their fellow Arabs in Jordan, Syria and Saudi Arabia and their own leaders (including Hamas) who were much less interested in helping them than in using them as tools to air and push their own grievances.

It is no wonder why the Palestinians, especially in Gaza, are so angry and so easily manipulated into violent action. The Palestinians, Jews and other inhabitants of the West Bank and Gaza and even Israel, both Muslim and otherwise would be so much better off if they could join together and reject all the other influencers who have been exploiting and using them for their own selfish gain. I'm sure some of the more knowledgeable participants here already know more than I have recently learned from this video, but if you don't, I highly advise that you view it. It will give you a much greater understanding of the Mideast Situation and, perhaps, some sympathy for the Gazans who have so long been ruthlessly victimized, even by their own leaders. I can't help thinking that all the people in that region in particular and even the world itself (including Jews) would have been better off had it not been for Zionism and the Balfour Declaration.

Why Arab countries ban all Gaza refugees

Like almost everything else about the MidEast, the reasons are quite complicated and there are both victims and villains on all sides of the issues. What a tragedy it is that so many of these people can't see or acknowledge what they are doing to themselves and that they would all fare so much better if they could just see the benefits of ending the bitter, mutual hatreds and treat each other as friends and brothers and sisters!

And I'm sure that neither Trump nor any of his State Department appointees are making a good faith, objective effort to understand what is really going on or waste any compassion on the innocent victims of this abominable mess.

I don’t know anything like the whole story, but I think that a big part of the problem must be that a lot of the Middle East is miserable desert, but there are patches of lush land. There’s no easy way to share that kind of real estate fairly among the number of people who are trying to live there.

There’s a lot of hatred and anger in the Middle East, but it’s not just irrational rage, or even historical grudges. There are real present grievances over who gets the good land.

Gunner,

Thanks for posting those videos. It is a huge mess and we really can't understand it from the safety of our arm chairs. It is deep, and one can take it back in history as far as they want.

in my opinion, at where I am at in my journey through this, the British are the deep villains in this, especially after WW1 and their weaponizing and empowering the Zionists and pro "Zionist" Arab groups, and screwing the ignorant and gullible tribal Palestinians out of their land.

But, understanding that the Zionists, mainly fighting age male Jews from places like Russia, where their parents and families were eradicated via mass murder by communists and other haters of Jews just adds more "mud" to the history. These were people like you and I just wanting to live in peace....but that had no home, and no hope.... other that the promise of Israel as their homeland and a state and nation.

This is one of those topics where I read a book, watched a documentary, and listened to a few podcasts and I came away thinking I know what the issues and problems are. But, as I read and learn more, I find that I really know nothing. It is just so complex and convoluted with heroes, villains, profiters, martyrs, and victims on all sides. It is so sad.

Physics Guy wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 15, 2025 4:01 pm

I don’t know anything like the whole story, but I think that a big part of the problem must be that a lot of the Middle East is miserable desert, but there are patches of lush land. There’s no easy way to share that kind of real estate fairly among the number of people who are trying to live there.

There’s a lot of hatred and anger in the Middle East, but it’s not just irrational rage, or even historical grudges. There are real present grievances over who gets the good land.

Of course, that is part of the problem. It cannot be resolved, in my opinion, though, unless the people there come to realize that the most intractable part of the problem is the unrelenting mutual hatred and enmity and refusal to negotiate with each other in good faith and with mutual respect. It would also help for them to come to the realization that what they have in common is more important than what divides them.

Markk wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 15, 2025 4:07 pm

Gunner,

Thanks for posting those videos. It is a huge mess and we really can't understand it from the safety of our arm chairs. It is deep, and one can take it back in history as far as they want.

in my opinion, at where I am at in my journey through this, the British are the deep villains in this, especially after WW1 and their weaponizing and empowering the Zionists and pro "Zionist" Arab groups, and screwing the ignorant and gullible tribal Palestinians out of their land.

But, understanding that the Zionists, mainly fighting age male Jews from places like Russia, where their parents and families were eradicated via mass murder by communists and other haters of Jews just adds more "mud" to the history. These were people like you and I just wanting to live in peace....but that had no home, and no hope.... other that the promise of Israel as their homeland and a state and nation.

This is one of those topics where I read a book, watched a documentary, and listened to a few podcasts and I came away thinking I know what the issues and problems are. But, as I read and learn more, I find that I really know nothing. It is just so complex and convoluted with heroes, villains, profiters[sic], martyrs, and victims on all sides. It is so sad.

All of the above is something on which I can agree with you. I particularly agree that British, European and even U.S. Government meddling, largely on behalf of petroleum industry profiteers, with the dictating of how political boundaries should be set with too little consideration for what the people living in the region actually want or need, has played a big role in creating this mess. One also has to consider that profiteering by immensely wealthy and powerful military arms manufacturers has to be a factor. I can't help but believe that the world's major Arms manufacturers and dealers love the enormous profits they are getting from the unending conflicts and are not above surreptitiously or, perhaps, even openly provoking the animosities and hatreds tending to perpetuate them. I think they would actually be dismayed by policies and negotiations that would most likely lead to ending the conflicts.

Gunnar,

I have been reading and listening to podcasts on this subject off and on for a few months.

One Martyr, villain, hero, and murderer that jumps out of the pages of the early Zionist movement, depending on what you read.... is Joseph Trumpeldor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Trumpeldor

His story is a fascinating one, and his resolve for the Zionist movement was unmatched. If you haven't done a dive into Trumpeldor, it is an interesting one for sure.

Throwing this on the pile of resources that are accumulating on this thread. These are the Messianic Jews I posted about a while back...last year? It's 2.5 hours long. In my opinion, your time will be WELL invested!

Israel: Whose Land is it Anyway?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0jdK9Z ... l&index=11

Markk wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 16, 2025 3:34 pm

Gunnar,

I have been reading and listening to podcasts on this subject off and on for a few months.

One Martyr, villain, hero, and murderer that jumps out of the pages of the early Zionist movement, depending on what you read.... is Joseph Trumpeldor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Trumpeldor

His story is a fascinating one, and his resolve for the Zionist movement was unmatched. If you haven't done a dive into Trumpeldor, it is an interesting one for sure.

Thank you for posting that story. Trumpeldor was clearly a brave and inspiring man who really cared about his people and had a positive influence on all whose lives he touched, both Jews and non-Jews, and even the Bolsheviks he worked with and fought and suffered with. It is clear to me that all whose lives he impacted were better people for having known him. I think I understand the motivations for the Zionist movement and the good intentions behind it. I get the impression from what little I know about it that in its earliest days there were both Jews and Muslims who approved of it and who were great friends to each other. It is tragic how eventually it became associated with mutual hatred, intolerance and bigotry, initially started, if I'm not mistaken, by certain highly bigoted Muslim clerics. That needn't have happened in my opinion.

Gunnar wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 17, 2025 5:56 am

Markk wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 16, 2025 3:34 pm

Gunnar,

I have been reading and listening to podcasts on this subject off and on for a few months.

One Martyr, villain, hero, and murderer that jumps out of the pages of the early Zionist movement, depending on what you read.... is Joseph Trumpeldor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Trumpeldor

His story is a fascinating one, and his resolve for the Zionist movement was unmatched. If you haven't done a dive into Trumpeldor, it is an interesting one for sure.

Thank you for posting that story. Trumpeldor was clearly a brave and inspiring man who really cared about his people and had a positive influence on all whose lives he touched, both Jews and non-Jews, and even the Bolsheviks he worked with and fought and suffered with. It is clear to me that all whose lives he impacted were better people for having known him. I think I understand the motivations for the Zionist movement and the good intentions behind it. I get the impression from what little I know about it that in its earliest days there were both Jews and Muslims who approved of it and who were great friends to each other. It is tragic how eventually it became associated with mutual hatred, intolerance and bigotry, initially started, if I'm not mistaken, by certain highly bigoted Muslim clerics. That needn't have happened in my opinion.

I think in the OP you hit the nail on the head in the OP about the British, French, and Turks (Ottoman Empire Sultans) working against the Palestinians, and native Jews to a certain extant.

There is again just so much to read on the subject my views are all over the place, and shift often. My head is spinning in regard to taking all the different rabbit trail truths, and organizing them.

The British and French were ruthless with the Ottoman Empire and folks like Serbians in regard to WW1, they were basically chum in battles. I was reading how Syria by war's end, percentage wise had lost 1/3 of it people to war and famine, the Serbs almost as many percentage wise. And for what? These folks had no idea what the war was about.

If my recollection is correct, and I think I am close, before WW1 the Jews were about 10% of the population of Israel, and lived in relative peace with the Palestinians. Then the Balfour agreement, which totally screwed over the Palestinians.

But again, I feel and understand the plight and reasons for the Zionists themselves. The Jews were not just fighting for land, but for identity as a nation and people, I get that. I also get how the Palestinians would have felt to have their land ripped out from underneath them, and their rights and maybe better put their "way of life." Their rights were more traditional and tribal, rather than the black and white laws introduced by the Balfour.

Then on top of that going way back, I see how the Jews were decimated by the Romans back when they went through Israel and destroyed their nation and Temple, and while they were scattered as individuals, they lost their identity as a people and nation.

Again it is such a mess.