Charlie Kirk Miracle

[Kishkumen]

Quite a few people across the political spectrum are coming to the conclusion that the FBI's account of Charlie Kirk's assassination does not add up. Our friend Gunnar linked to a YouTube channel, Valhalla VFT, that goes through some of the problems. Personally, I think this fellow's reading of the video evidence suffers from some of its own problems, but there are some interesting issues connected to the murder that raise doubt.

Yesterday, the same channel brought to our attention the fact that Charlie Kirk's executive producer, Andrew Kolvet, is claiming that the surgeon who operated on Kirk found the .30-06 round right under the skin because Charlie Kirk's bone was superhumanly dense and stopped a .30-06 round, thereby saving the lives of those around him.

Uhhhh.....

https://www.foxnews.com/us/charlie-kirk ... l-shooting

Wow, as someone who has watched people on this board pull apart and demolish so many LDS miracle stories, this one reeks to high heaven of bogusness already. It would seem to me that the physics of this simply do not work. So, yes, if it were true, you might say it is a miracle, but--and maybe I am speaking only for myself here--when you get this news from the executive producer of Charlie Kirk's show, not the doctor (who can't violate HIPAA), and the producer does not identify the doctor (how convenient!), well, I think the claim is frankly unbelievable, whether you believe in miracles or not.

This bogus claim also raises other questions. Why come up with the story in the first place? One reason is because the official account makes no sense to a lot of people who are experienced with high-power rifles. And one of the biggest apparent problems is the rifle and its rounds. A .30-06 round from 150 yards should do catastrophic damage to the soft tissue and bone of the target (being the kind of weapon that can put down an elk at 300-500 yards), but Kirk's body experienced relatively little damage. Fatal damage, yes, but not the kind of extensive damage such a round from such a gun would be expected to deal.

So, if the damage to the body does not match the claimed weapon, what do you do? I guess one option is to reframe the evidence itself within a miracle story. Yes, the .30-06 bullet did not do the damage it would normally do, but that is because God wanted to save the people around Charlie Kirk, while letting Charlie himself be murdered in cold blood. So God made Charlie Kirk out of tougher stuff than normal humans, a fact that escaped medical science until this anonymous surgeon violated HIPAA to tell Kirk's executive producer about this miracle.

Really?

I find all of this fascinating partly because this is exactly the kind of story the naïve rubes are told, which will circulate forever. Just like our dearly departed Elvis was sighted at so many convenience stores and bowling alleys, Charlie Kirk was a "man of steel" whose superhumanly dense bone saved the lives of those around him. The martyrdom of Charlie Kirk is well underway. Now there is even a Charlie Kirk miracle.

I join with all of those who deeply regret the monstrous murder of Charlie Kirk happened. It was a horrible, horrible thing, and it has led to further unfortunate and unwanted developments. This cowardly act robbed a spouse of a husband, children of a father, and a lot of young people of their hero. As I said earlier, no sane person would have wanted this to happen, whether they liked Kirk or not. Moreover, no sane person should rejoice in heinous acts of murder. I can understand the need some have to amplify the legacy of Kirk, and I join them inasmuch as I hope his views on free speech are carried forward. I also hope Erika Kirk's message of love and forgiveness at Kirk's memorial are spread and taken to heart. The manufacture of dubious miracle stories, on the other hand, is not particularly useful.

[I Have Questions]

I join with all of those who deeply regret the monstrous murder of Charlie Kirk happened. It was a horrible, horrible thing, and it has led to further unfortunate and unwanted developments. This cowardly act robbed a spouse of a husband, children of a father, and a lot of young people of their hero. As I said earlier, no sane person would have wanted this to happen, whether they liked Kirk or not.

I suppose we will never know whether his murder was a net negative or a net positive. Had Hitler been murdered prior to gaining power, people would probably echo your Kirk sentiments about him.

Laban had to die, even though he had done nothing to warrant his murder and had no means of defending himself at the time. I don’t hear Mormons saying nice things about Laban. Even though the circumstances are similar.

[Kishkumen]

I suppose we will never know whether his murder was a net negative or a net positive. Had Hitler been murdered prior to gaining power, people would probably echo your Kirk sentiments about him.

Laban had to die, even though he had done nothing to warrant his murder and had no means of defending himself at the time. I don’t hear Mormons saying nice things about Laban. Even though the circumstances are similar.

Had Hitler been assassinated before his rise to power, he would have been remembered as a minor crank who wrote a bad book in prison.

[Some Schmo]

I think there's a need to deify Kirk to justify all the handwringing the right is doing over it in stark contrast to how they react to the ubiquitous US gun deaths daily. They have to pretend this one's worse.

[ceeboo]

I suppose we will never know whether his murder was a net negative or a net positive. Had Hitler been murdered prior to gaining power, people would probably echo your Kirk sentiments about him.

I suppose that we should know how insane it is when we read insane posts like the one you have delivered here (even if some remain blind to this reality).

When an American citizen is publicly assassinated on American soil, it is always a "net negative" - Always. There are no exceptions. None.

To even consider such an evil act as a "net positive", is itself evil. Pure evil.

[Molok]

To even consider such an evil act as a "net positive", is itself evil. Pure evil.

Is it more evil, or less evil supporting a pedophile rapist felon? Or is all of that worth it, because the browns suffer? Is that a net positive?

[Kishkumen]

When an American citizen is publicly assassinated on American soil, it is always a "net negative" - Always. There are no exceptions. None.

Agreed.

[canpakes]

I suppose we will never know whether his murder was a net negative or a net positive. Had Hitler been murdered prior to gaining power, people would probably echo your Kirk sentiments about him.

I suppose that we should know how insane it is when we read insane posts like the one you have delivered here (even if some remain blind to this reality).

When an American citizen is publicly assassinated on American soil, it is always a "net negative" - Always. There are no exceptions. None.

To even consider such an evil act as a "net positive", is itself evil. Pure evil.

Thoughts and prayers it is, then.

[Doctor Steuss]

I've only watched the Kirk video once, and that was by accident, and I don't ever plan to see it again. That said, from what I recall, there was a massive amount of expansion when the round hit, which would be expected from a soft point round. The soft point also wouldn't necessarily be expected to exit.

It's been almost 20 years since I've bought ammo, but from what I recall (take with a grain of salt, because my memory is unreliable even at short distances), soft point for a .30-.06 is much cheaper, and more readily available in sporting goods joints than full metal jackets. I think it reasonable to assume that's the type of ammo that would be more probable to be used.

[Kishkumen]

I've only watched the Kirk video once, and that was by accident, and I don't ever plan to see it again. That said, from what I recall, there was a massive amount of expansion when the round hit, which would be expected from a soft point round. The soft point also wouldn't necessarily be expected to exit.

It's been almost 20 years since I've bought ammo, but from what I recall (take with a grain of salt, because my memory is unreliable even at short distances), soft point for a .30-.06 is much cheaper, and more readily available in sporting goods joints than full metal jackets. I think it reasonable to assume that's the type of ammo that would be more probable to be used.

Could be! I would prefer the simpler explanation. Other videos I have watched have pointed out that the official scenario is unlikely but certainly not impossible.